Oicnw?

Active 3Mate MMC but have not sailed since 2010 changes or sailed within last 5 years and apparently missed the grandfathering of 2018. There are 2 checklists for OICNW which seem to render my 3Mate Unlimited Oceans useless other than for tugs, inland or Great Lakes.

Has anyone gone through the OICNW process that can provide me with recommendations on USCG approved training courses for OICNW? Does my current MMC get me out of the navigation or other courses?

I understand I will need other endorsements but this OICNW is a big immediate hurdle.

Thanks.

I did the hawsepipe assessments before I went to test for Mate it took me a couple of years. I believe they were in policy letter 11-07, can’t recall exactly.
I think the assessor has to be a QA now, and one who is willing, getting more rare these days I hear.

I’m sure there a school out there that would take your money and put you through about 12 weeks of courses for about 10 grand.

Give MPT down in Ft Lauderdale a call they’re pretty knowledgeable.

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Did you let your OICNW expire?

It wasn’t required to renew my license while I wasn’t sailing like most of the endorsements. I did take the full renewal courses for my first renewal in 1999 but I don’t recall that OICNW was required but I did get certificates for BRM and others in 99. So if I did, it lapsed in 2004.

Gotcha. So you’re missing the original grandfathering (if there was one) not the 2010 grandfathering.

Look in 46 CFR for the list of classes you need to take and you have to do the assessments.

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I guess so. Grandfathering should have been automatic as most not sailing would have missed that and those looking to return to the mariner pool will not be interested in what is required. I also renewed every 5 years which should have taken care of any grandfathering. It’s not like I put my license into continuity, it was active the whole time.

Certainly not a way to attract mariners when there are many other ways to make a living, as we all know and understand.

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It might have been automatic at the time but since you weren’t sailing you didn’t get it. I’m not exactly sure if there was grandfathering then or not though.

I found a relevant post and NVIC notice. What was once an unlimited oceans license, has been reduced and restricted to work inland or on 200 tons or less. Like many teacher programs, they need to provide a viable path for those looking to start or return to the mariner pool. Months of school and expenses close to $20k for courses only, not to mention the days and travel, etc. Companies are not paying for training and wages do not make up for it, hence, the crew shortages.

Understood, it was more of a point in time reference if when changes occurred. There are 2 ways to deal with not sailing:

  1. Actively renew and take 2 take home tests for basic MMC with endorsements.
  2. Put License into continuity status

They still follow this. It used to be that Option 1 would mean you wouldn’t need to retake everything celestial, terrestrial, stability, etc.

For Oceans: OINCW has turned Option 1 into only a record of completing original training and sea time. My Unlimited License is now Limited/Inland, 200GRT or less.

In my humble experience and observations.

There have been a few times changes have occurred since 1994. You wouldn’t have automatically had OICNW in 2013 either.

OICNW has been required for the last 20 years at a minimum.

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You don’t lose your STCW if you stop sailing unless you stop renewing.

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I’ve renewed every 5 years but without sailing so will have to go through the years and see if/what I can verify against the all inclusive checklist with NMC.

A number of these items should not be required from an approved school (Celestial, Terrestrial, Stability, Metrology, etc).

You needed to have STCW to begin with and you would have had to take a refresher class every 5 years to keep it valid since you weren’t sailing.

I’ve kept license active the entire time so not everything should NOT expire from the approved school training like terrestrial, celestial, stability, cargo handling. Only those that need to be refreshed every 5 years like Radar, STCW Basic Training, Adv Firefighting should need to be fully retaken.

Perhaps others on the list like GMDSS, BRM, ECDIS would remain active too if taken previously. If not, I can retake those. But to have an active Third Mate license and have to retake the full check list as if I am a hawse piper takes us back to the beginning.

I guess I’m the first/only mariner on this forum that is trying to do this.

Classes don’t “expire” ¹, endorsements do. If you never had OICNW then there was nothing for you to keep active. Since you never had OICNW before and never tried to get it in the last 22.5 years since it became required then you lost any chance at grandfathering you had.

(¹ There is a time limit in which you must submit a class towards a license or endorsement otherwise it must be retaken.)

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I’d you took the classes in the 90’s before STCW was enacted then the classes weren’t STCW compliant and therefore won’t count. Even if you took STCW compliant classes 20 years ago the fact that you never used the classes to get OICNW on your license means that they no longer count. (At most you have 5 years from the course date to apply with the USCG. There are a few instances where I think you have less but I’m unaware of any instances where you have more than 5 years.)

That wording exists to keep the USCG from requiring an applicant to submit classes that they have already previously submitted. Since you not only never took STCW classes but more importantly never submitted them to the USCG as part of an application for an STCW endorsement then you never “previously met” the requirements.

Hopefully @jdcavo will correct me if I’m wrong.

I am referring to: Celestial, terrestrial, stability, cargo, signals, etc that were already completed at the approved school program so shouldn’t expire either. No issues taking BRM, Leadership, Teamwork or other additional STCW courses required.
The checklist groups it all together like I have to submit all of that again. The check list should differentiate between AB to Mate versus a renewing 3rd mate. When asking NMC they send the checklist and say submit according to the guidelines which is not specific to the origin of the requestor.

Example/suggestion:
If renewing 3Mate (not in continuity) then checklist A. If AB to 3Mate then checklist A+B.

I was referring to those too.

They weren’t STCW compliant because you took them before STCW existed. They were also taken over 5 years ago so even if they were compliant you would have to retake them.

Approved school programs do expire though. You have 5 years to submit your academy completion to the USCG and get your license or you have to retake everything. (I know you have your license, I’m just pointing out that your statement is wrong.)

You don’t need the classes to renew your third mate, though. You need to classes to obtain an original OICNW just like an AB to Mate.