I have a buddy that was just evaluated for 3rd Mate. This guy has a 1,600 ton Master and even took the OICNW exam after 2002 to get it.
I also went from 1600 ton Master to 3rd Mate and all the way to Master, so I’m trying to help this guy out with NMC because he is following the same career path. His evaluator (and his supervisor) said he needs all of the OICNW courses and Assessments from policy letter 01-02. Now this exact thing happened to me regarding paragraph 11C. I got this resolved and this is my evaluators response forwarded to me back then…

"The reasoning behind telling Mr. Fendley that he would need to comply with “All” of Policy letter 01-02 was an e-mail received from Stu Walker responding to a question that I had asked which was:

"3rd mate ocean or near coastal (after 1 May 2002 thru 31 January 2003) must provide assessments 4-1 thru 4-89 as well because we are in phase 2 of enclosure 6, is this correct [Walker, Stewart A.] (Yes).

After 31 January 2003 what are they going to have to provide…[Walker, Stewart A.] (After 31 January, enclosure 6 becomes inactive. Everyone must comply with the basic letter)."

According to what Stu said in this e-mail, we would go back to the “basic” letter which would mean that they would need to provide all of the courses found in paragraph 6 as well as the assessments.

However, now my question would be, does the term “basic letter” also cover paragraph 11 c? Or is this paragraph still allowing the exclusion of the courses? If it still allows for the exclusion of the courses, then what I told Mr. Fendley was indeed incorrect and all he needed to provide was the assessments (which he has done). This can be corrected easily but, do you see where my answer to Mr. Fendley came from?

Now, my question is how to explain to the evaluator and supervisor at NMC their own job?.. So they can understand that there are hundreds of qualified mariners that have 3rd Mates that did not have to take a class on a freaking compass, or operational ship handling, etc, after being a 1600 ton Master ( There are 5 gcaptain members that I can think of off the top of my head). Do they not see the remedial nature of what they are asking?
Seem like we’re going in a full circle as far as progress with some of these issues.


I just went through the same routine with NMC. Applied to upgrade from Master 1600 to 3rd unlimited. I was told that even though I am an approved instructor and assessor ( Have signed off assessments for folks up to and including 2nd mate) that I would need to complete the assessments and exams. Doesn’t make sense but what can you do.


Doc G - Suggestion: send a letter of appeal to the following:


Don’t lie down on this issue!

Good luck


The assessments and exam are requirements. Nothing else, but what they’re requiring was all OICNW courses also (that is not right). IE. Basic Shiphandling, Weather, etc…
The courses should not be required provided you have a current STCW, which this guy has, and a valid 1600 ton Master.

When did you go through the same routine? What happened to you was right, but several people over the last 30 days are getting something different.


DocG, check out the Frustration is building (again) thread. There is a lot of discussion of what you are experiencing.


I know four academy grads that came from the same class, sailed on the same vessels, with the same licenses. They all applied for the Ch. Eng (OSV) endorsement and were given four completely different sets of requirements from NMC. I thought centralization was supposed to take care of this type of stuff. I guess they just wasted millions in our tax dollars for more of the same.


Doc G, I agree with anchorman, we are not questioning having to provide the 90 or so pages of assessments and taking the exam for third mate, I have happily provided the assessments and have provided the service records, discharges, letters of time,etc, that by their own words (evaluator Abigail Cochenour and C.F Klingler), qualify me for third mate unlimited but they won’t approve my application to test till I provide them with an additional 17 certificates from approved schools. [B]That is the part we are protesting…[/B]


I am a 500 Master oceans tested after 2002,and have also applied and been denied upgrade to 3rd mate without completion of OICNW courses. My original application was March 19th 2009.My denial came july 8th 2009,and was sent for “Reconsideration” the same day.I just received the response from my “Reconsideration”,after 8 weeks.

NMC’s position is that the OICNW classes are required,along with all assesments prior to testing.Their CURRENT interpretation of Pl 01-02 is that it applies to “Mates” 500 GRT- 1600 GRT,and does NOT apply to Masters.

Nothing unexpected there,but I’m probably the first “reconsideration” that has finally been decided from what is being discussed on this forum,so I thought I would throw that out there.Good luck to the others,I hope you have better luck,or we can effectively get someones attention to get this turned around to common sense,or a new policy as per Anchorman’s suggestion. I still have a formal appeal left,which must be made within thirty days of the letter,I’m out of country so that presents another challenge. Unfortunately with my luck this will be changed at about the same time I finish the last of the OICNW classes…:o


Capt. Leigh, that, in a nutshell, describes the really weird loophole and disparity that is built into PL 01-02.
So, the good news is that if you skip the 500 or 1600 Mate license and go right for the 500 / 1600 Masters license, you do not need to take the OICNW courses, assessments, etc.
But, if you want to go from 500/1600 Master to 3rd Mate, you DO need to take the OICNW courses, assessments, etc.
Good news, then bad news.