Sail vs. Auxilary Sail Endorsement

Reading the CFRs, it seems that there is a clear distinction between a Sail Endorsement and an Auxiliary Sail Endorsement:

“A master or mate on vessels of 200 GRT or more, and a master or mate on vessels under 200 GRT, may be endorsed for sail or auxiliary sail as appropriate.” Or for less than 200 GRT, “In order to obtain an officer endorsement for sail or auxiliary sail vessels, the applicant must submit evidence of 12 months of service on sail or auxiliary sail vessels.”

Notwithstanding that there are very few sail vessels (w/o auxiliary propulsion) around, has anyone ever received a Sail AND an Auxiliary Sail endorsement on their license? Or does an Auxiliary Sail endorsement also cover sail-only vessels, and therefore the single Aux. Sail endorsement covers both?

According to my limited understanding, “Sail” means a vessel that is designed to be propelled by sail alone, whereas “Auxiliary Sail” means a vessel designed to be propelled by engine power with sails for stability or fuel economy improvement.

As per below, I stand corrected.

Really, I’m asking about endorsement requirements to carry passengers on an imaginary less than 100 GRT sailing vessel that has no engine (think Skipjack w/o the pushing boat).

I did find in 46 CFR 15.901, that an individual holding a license or MMC endorsed as master or mate of inspected auxiliary sail vessels, is authorized to serve as master or mate, respectively, of self-propelled and non-self-propelled vessels, within any restrictions on the individual’s license or MMC, without further endorsement. Since self-propelled is defined as having the same meaning as the terms “propelled by machinery” and “mechanically propelled," I guess that a sail vessel is non-self propelled.

I think this answers my question, but has anyone actually seen a separate Sail Endorsement (not Aux. Sail) on a CG license?

EDIT: The above only applies to Inspected vessels of less than 100 GRT. I presume that means a separate Sail Endorsement would be required on say a tall ship that had no mechanical propulsion.

A sail vessel with a auxiliary engine. Basically, almost every sail boat in existence today.

On Scamp’s** US documentation certificate it calls her a “the gas screw Scamp”.

**32 ft Pearson Vanguard, built '63

The Victory Chimes in Maine is over 200 GRT with no engine, just a push boat. Not only does time on there count towards getting 500/1,600 ton licenses for people but as far as I know the officers always have auxiliary sail licenses.

Aka “Jinglebells”. :wink:

The two owners swap captain duties throughout the season. They both hold 1600T Aux Sail license. One of the guys also runs the ELISSA out of Galveston on its occasional outings.

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This is exactly like what I was thinking. I wonder if CG counts it as sail or aux. sail if the yawl boat is hooked up w/ engine running.

I think as far as licensing goes it’s all aux sail.

Since the Ford diesel powered push boat is under 26 feet, I don’t think the operator needs any license although he has a big responsibility in docking maneuvers.

I’m not sure how that’s relevant.

Auxiliary Sail.

I think it’s relevant because engine power output would normally be the responsibility of a mate or at least an AB.

I don’t think that there is usually anyone in the yawl boat. I suspect that they just have control linkages for the engine that lead to the schooner’s wheel. I think that is how the Skipjacks work, but I could be mistaken.

You are mistaken. The push boat is independent from the vessel. There’s an experienced hand operating it and following the captain’s instructions on VHF.

OK, well if that is true, then I think it bolsters the case that this vessel is a non-self propelled sailing vessel. So why do the CFRs try to make a point that an officer “may be endorsed for sail or auxiliary sail as appropriate” if NMC only issues auxiliary sail endorsements?

I don’t know the answer. Maybe it’s a remnant of a time when pure sailing vessels relied on hired steam harbor tugs for docking maneuvers. I’m willing to bet @jdcavo can clarify it.

I hope you didn’t bet much. This is on the short list of things I don’t know. I have not had reason to known the nuances of sail v. auxiliary sail licenses, so I don’t.

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I’m disappointed you couldn’t help. I’m going to find a safe space and paint a mural.