How many oil patch mariners are sitting at home, waiting for a call?

Professional Mariner Forum
61

[QUOTE=tugsailor;158623]
Alaska and Washington are right to work states, and have some of the highest wages in the US. Unions usually mean that a chosen few get overpaid, but most people cannot get into the union, so have to work for nothing. For example, just look at longshoremen wages compared to mariners or any other workers.[/QUOTE]

Not according to my info.

Right to work for less States are:

Alabama
Arizona † (Constitution, State Constitution Article 25 approved 1946 [1])
Arkansas † (Constitution, 1947, Amendment 34)
Florida † (Constitution, 1944, revised 1968, Article 1, Section 6)[39][2]
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana[3] (State law, 2012)
Iowa
Kansas † (Constitution, 1958, Article 15, Section 12)
Louisiana
Michigan[2] (State law, 2012)
Mississippi †
Nebraska ††
Nevada
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma †
South Carolina[40]
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas[41]
Utah
Virginia
Wisconsin[4] (State law, 2015)
Wyoming
62

[QUOTE=injunear;158625]The difference is that longshoremen stick together. When this cycle approaches it’s nadir, the mariners will be too busy cutting each others throats.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that Longshoremen have one powerful union that controls an entire coast, without any competing unions underbidding them. Mariners just have the AMO, SIU, MMP, and Local 5000 competing with each other in a race to the bottom.

63

I stand corrected.

What I meant to say is that Alaska and Washington are “Hire (and fire) At Will” states. Of course the courts have put some minimal limitations on “At Will” employment for those willing to spend on lawyers and wait years for results which are very often unfavorable.

Interestingly, Maine is Not a right to work state, but its usually one of the bottom 5 states for wages. Except for Bath Iron Works, a couple other small defense contractors, the handful of paper mill jobs left, and a little bit of work for longshoremen, there are no decent paying jobs in Maine. Bacon Davis wages jobs (i.e., government funded dredging and construction projects) don’t pay shit in Maine because the local prevailing union wages are so pathetically low. Maine also has one of the 5 highest income taxes. Maine has a lot of mariners, but they are mostly working somewhere else. And many of them move out of state to get away from the high income tax. It does not look like unions have done much for Maine.

64

[QUOTE=Nautical Wheeler;158609]Louisiana is a right to work state. Any person can quit without notice and go anywhere else they like. But also you can be fired without reason.[/QUOTE]

actually, a “right to work” state means that you do not have to be a member of any union even if that union might have a contract with management at the place of employment. It certainly allows for a small group to cut the knees off a larger one

“employment at will” states give no protection to the employee. Joe Boss needs no reason whatsoever to end employment, there is no contract expressed or implied between the two parties.

Louisiana is both

65

[QUOTE=c.captain;158631]actually, a “right to work” state means that you do not have to be a member of any union even if that union might have a contract with management at the place of employment. It certainly allows for a small group to cut the knees off a larger one

“employment at will” states give no protection to the employee. Joe Boss needs no reason whatsoever to end employment, there is no contract expressed or implied between the two parties.

Louisiana is both[/QUOTE]

There’s a reason Joe Boss is based in Louisiana and I doubt it’s because Fourchon is such a convenient place.

66

[QUOTE=awulfclark;158639]There’s a reason Joe Boss is based in Louisiana and I doubt it’s because Fourchon is such a convenient place.[/QUOTE]

of course there is but few here seem to care…

67

Some of you are really stupid to think that Joe Boss only exists in LA.

68

he exists everywhere, but it seems to only be Louisiana where everyone apologizes and let’s joe get away serving the shit sandwich for lunch daily.

69

[QUOTE=AHTS Master;158645]Some of you are really stupid to think that Joe Boss only exists in LA.[/QUOTE]
There are some of you who are stupid enough to believe that there are people really stupid to think that Joe Boss only exists in LA.

70

[QUOTE=KrustySalt;158616]No wonder you were sent home, all you do is whine! Man up, get over it and move on! It sucks that layoffs are happening, we get it.[/QUOTE]
Who said I was sent home ? For your FYi , I am WORKING. I have employment ! If my posts about the particular breed of shadiness found most prevalent with the “joe bosses” of Louisiana affends you. Tough sh!T !!
Yes there is “joe boss” everywhere, however they seem to have scour the earth for the most unethical, incompetent, unintelligent, breed of scum of “joe bosses” and put them in one place otherwise known as Louisiana.

71

[QUOTE=pwrmariner;158650]Who said I was sent home ? For your FYi , I am WORKING. I have employment ! If my posts about the particular breed of shadiness found most prevalent with the “joe bosses” of Louisiana affends you. Tough sh!T !!
Yes there is “joe boss” everywhere, however they seem to have scour the earth for the most unethical, incompetent, unintelligent, breed of scum of “joe bosses” and put them in one place otherwise known as Louisiana.[/QUOTE]

I am certainly grateful not to be the sole wielder of the pointy stick here in the great crusade to call out Joe B for what he truly is. I do wish I could wade back into the battle though…

I miss getting the blood and guts of my foe all over my tinfoil armor.

I will say this much which is that I do feel ever so slightly some traction being gained here. It is still a steep grade to push against but as the cutbacks, force reductions and furloughs mount, I do sense some are in fact waking up to the message that Joe is not the mariners friend. Somehow, the hope exists in myself that with the pain felt by so many will come an awareness that the state of employment in the GoM offshore is one which perhaps might be changed in the future as enough mariners demand a new deal from the boss. It is not up to me to demand it though but those of you who are at the very short end of Joe’s stick feeling its point bury in to your flesh today.

Then again, that might just be that damned song playing over and over again in my head…

72

Joe Boss is everywhere, even in gubmint.

73

[QUOTE=catherder;158664]Joe Boss is everywhere, even in gubmint.[/QUOTE]

Very true. Jeaux Boss is just a subset of Joe Boss.

74

Sure Joe Boss is everywhere, but the Southern Jeaux Boss is different. Southern boat companies have the worst attitudes toward their employees and the most stupid rules to micromanage every aspect of working life. Must wear a uniform. Must wear steel toe boots in the wheelhouse. Must chew tobacco. Cannot carry a knife. Cannot wear shorts when its 100 degrees. Cannot do any fishing, etc., etc., etc. The smallest grocery budgets and the worst food. Never read a resume. No response to emails or calls. No appointments. Must show up in person at your own expense and wait in line to beg for a job. Must sit through a week of third grade level “training” without pay. No paid travel. No salary while traveling. Steal one day’s pay every hitch with only a half day pay for crew change days. Wait 90 days for insurance. And I’m sure I have not mentioned even half of the 19th Century Southern boat company ways of treating their employees like “boat trash.” Yes, you can find a bit of that anywhere, but nowhere is it half as bad as in the South.

75

Ha ha ha it is not just ME !

76

Why is it the Joe Boss is shitting all over everyone? If I worked for Foss under union contract and worked dried up will they keep paying me regardless? I’ve asked this before do all union contracts stipulate you get paid even if the boat is stacked? If not then if you get a months severance then what? You draw unemployment for awhile and scramble to find work then what? You find work at a lower dayrate and shitty benefits then what? Do you go to the union and they let you keep your benefits even though you are now working non union and they pay you the difference in dayrate? If so as I’ve also stated maybe I’ve been wrong about what I witnessed first hand while being a union member.

I also want to know why I would be considered an apologist for Joe Boss? I’ve noticed just like all of us down here when discussing things it is referred to as the “company I work for” not “the company I own”. Just like us none of you west/east coast tug guys say I “work with Joe Foss” or “I work with Joe Mcallister” because there is a difference. We all work “for” someone and maybe your fancy union contract states that the company has to pay whatever benefit agreed to regardless of company finances. So is it against the Union contract to tie up and lay off 3 boat crews to offset the expense of the guaranteed benefits? If Union tug jobs are the way to go is it safe to assume there have never been hard times and layoffs in that industry? You guys paint the picture of a permanent jobs where you can tell your boss “fuck you pay me” regardless of the companies financial state. You make it sound like you stay at the owners guest house while on your off time. Do you guys get Union stipulated use of Joe Foss/Joe Mcallisters private jet? No, none of you do as do none of us.

Why is it bad that the owners of all these companies live in mansions or own several yachts? It’s their company and their money to do as they see fit. Does not the Foss, Reinaur, McAllister etc. families have all the usual trappings of success. You’re honestly telling me that if things got slow you would expect Joe Foss to sell his wife’s Ferrari to keep one of you employed. It’s as if you were sitting next to the owner at the bank cosigning billions of dollars worth of loans that you feel entitled to an equal share of the profits. It was the owners gamble on his reputation to build the company and its his profits to do as he pleases. If the company fails will you be cutting Joe Foss a check to cover his loses? I don’t care if the owner is retiling his mansion with hand carved saber tooth tiger bones he found on an African Safari. I’m concerned with doing my job making sure he gets his money. When he gets his money then I get mine and my mortgage gets paid. If I don’t feel I’m being compensated to my liking I’m free to go look somewhere else. When times are slow and benefits/pay get shaved it beats panhandling in the street waiting on an unemployment check.

If I wanted a tug job I’d have one and I’d join the union. I wouldn’t bitch about it I’d just do it as it was understood to be a condition of employment. You come down here to enjoy our boom time and get paid obscene money. The whole time greedily bitching about wanting more money and benefits while smiling and collecting a check. As soon as things go the other way the owners are greedy and if we had a union they wouldn’t treat us so shabbily. I love the hypocrisy some of you now ex GOM guys have. You took the silver and smiled and now that there is no more silver Joe Boss is an asshole. What did you expect? Not only were people warned ad nauseum on this forum but also by long time GOM mariners onboard after hiring on. They were also warned by management during fleet meetings and vessel visits. Enjoy it while it lasts and don’t spend it all in one place is what was being said all over since 2012. As I’ve stated numerous times before I remember when no one wanted to work down here. Once the fancy new boats with all the bells and whistles started being built we started seeing the influx of new blood. Once the big raises came y’all tripped all over yourselves to get down here. Anyone having been in the business long enough knows it can be life or death on a lee shore down here during a bust. I don’t fault anyone for giving it a shot if tugs suddenly became the be all boat job I might be tempted myself. Probably not though as I have the bitter taste of a union still in my mouth. I’ll just stay down here push buttons, change filters and hope nothing breaks because I’m to dumb to fix it. Oh and I’ll be sure to have my daily ration of shit sandwich until the next boom when y’all come back and want a bite for your self.

77

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;158678]
Why is it bad that the owners of all these companies live in mansions or own several yachts? It’s their company and their money to do as they see fit. Does not the Foss, Reinaur, McAllister etc. families have all the usual trappings of success. You’re honestly telling me that if things got slow you would expect Joe Foss to sell his wife’s Ferrari to keep one of you employed. It’s as if you were sitting next to the owner at the bank cosigning billions of dollars worth of loans that you feel entitled to an equal share of the profits. It was the owners gamble on his reputation to build the company and its his profits to do as he pleases. [/QUOTE]

They actually live pretty humbly; if they’re flashing money around its done pretty quietly. Brian McAllister drove a Subaru station wagon the last time I saw him, the Reinauers sit with the unwashed masses at Giants games in the meadowlands.

The owner of Gateway often DOES fly crews around on their jet for crewchanges.

Just wanted to touch on those items.

78

Bravo Fraq!! I couldn’t have said it better myself!!

79

Bravo Fraq ! Well said.

The fact is that Jeaux Boss had to pay more during the boom in order to find enough mariners willing to put up with the disagreeable taste of his shit sandwich. It never occurred to Jeaux Boss to stop serving shit sandwiches and attract more mariners without having to pay so much more money. That’s is not Jeaux Bosses’ DNA. Jeaux is genetically programmed to treat his employees as the “boat trash.” For enough money, most mariners will put up with that, at least for awhile.

You are absolutely correct that virtually no company is going to keep people on the payroll when it has no work for them to do. That ought to be obvious to anyone.

However, Foss was a bad example for you to pick. I don’t work at Foss, so I don’t have firsthand knowledge, but the way I hear it, Foss wheelhouse guys are “management” on a set salary. (The deck crew and engineers are IBU). The masters and mates are guaranteed a set salary and have a 150 day per year work commitment. Last I heard that set salary worked out to $500 for 2nd mates, $600 for chief mates, and $700 for masters working 150 days per year. If they work over 150 days per year, they get double pay for each extra day worked. If they work less than 150 days (which never happens) they would still get paid for 150 days. Foss has good benefits, paid training, paid travel, etc. They do this to keep the damn unions out of the wheelhouse. Some guys at Foss like the extra double time money, but complain constantly that they are working way too much and cannot get a relief. Other guys complain that they are working exactly 150 days, and cannot get any of that extra double pay. However, Foss is one of the most corporate boat companies, with the most paperwork and bullshit, second only to Crowley, on the West Coast. Some say that the biggest problem at Foss is that they have hired far too many ex-Crowley rejects into Foss management. Foss is a good company.

In the Gulf, the drilling companies have set the standard for how mariners ought to be treated — paid training at full salary, paid travel on full salary door to door, top benefits, vacation pay, etc. etc. etc… The drilling companies operate like most other modern employers in 21st Century corporate America (or Europe). They advertise, read resumes, return phone calls, make appointments, and hire selectively through industry standard processes. That has enabled them to cherrypick the best people from the bayou Jeaux Boss boat companies. Jeaux Boss complains bitterly about all the ungrateful guys he trains, only to see 70% of them jump ship for the drilling companies as soon as they get their DP certificates. It never occurs to Jeaux to compete, and treat his mariners the same way the drilling companies do. It just isn’t in Jeaux’s DNA to treat his “boat trash” like real modern American employees.

80

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;158678]Why is it the Joe Boss is shitting all over everyone? If I worked for Foss under union contract and worked dried up will they keep paying me regardless? I’ve asked this before do all union contracts stipulate you get paid even if the boat is stacked? If not then if you get a months severance then what? You draw unemployment for awhile and scramble to find work then what? You find work at a lower dayrate and shitty benefits then what? Do you go to the union and they let you keep your benefits even though you are now working non union and they pay you the difference in dayrate? If so as I’ve also stated maybe I’ve been wrong about what I witnessed first hand while being a union member.

I also want to know why I would be considered an apologist for Joe Boss? I’ve noticed just like all of us down here when discussing things it is referred to as the “company I work for” not “the company I own”. Just like us none of you west/east coast tug guys say I “work with Joe Foss” or “I work with Joe Mcallister” because there is a difference. We all work “for” someone and maybe your fancy union contract states that the company has to pay whatever benefit agreed to regardless of company finances. So is it against the Union contract to tie up and lay off 3 boat crews to offset the expense of the guaranteed benefits? If Union tug jobs are the way to go is it safe to assume there have never been hard times and layoffs in that industry? You guys paint the picture of a permanent jobs where you can tell your boss “fuck you pay me” regardless of the companies financial state. You make it sound like you stay at the owners guest house while on your off time. Do you guys get Union stipulated use of Joe Foss/Joe Mcallisters private jet? No, none of you do as do none of us.

Why is it bad that the owners of all these companies live in mansions or own several yachts? It’s their company and their money to do as they see fit. Does not the Foss, Reinaur, McAllister etc. families have all the usual trappings of success. You’re honestly telling me that if things got slow you would expect Joe Foss to sell his wife’s Ferrari to keep one of you employed. It’s as if you were sitting next to the owner at the bank cosigning billions of dollars worth of loans that you feel entitled to an equal share of the profits. It was the owners gamble on his reputation to build the company and its his profits to do as he pleases. If the company fails will you be cutting Joe Foss a check to cover his loses? I don’t care if the owner is retiling his mansion with hand carved saber tooth tiger bones he found on an African Safari. I’m concerned with doing my job making sure he gets his money. When he gets his money then I get mine and my mortgage gets paid. If I don’t feel I’m being compensated to my liking I’m free to go look somewhere else. When times are slow and benefits/pay get shaved it beats panhandling in the street waiting on an unemployment check.

If I wanted a tug job I’d have one and I’d join the union. I wouldn’t bitch about it I’d just do it as it was understood to be a condition of employment. You come down here to enjoy our boom time and get paid obscene money. The whole time greedily bitching about wanting more money and benefits while smiling and collecting a check. As soon as things go the other way the owners are greedy and if we had a union they wouldn’t treat us so shabbily. I love the hypocrisy some of you now ex GOM guys have. You took the silver and smiled and now that there is no more silver Joe Boss is an asshole. What did you expect? Not only were people warned ad nauseum on this forum but also by long time GOM mariners onboard after hiring on. They were also warned by management during fleet meetings and vessel visits. Enjoy it while it lasts and don’t spend it all in one place is what was being said all over since 2012. As I’ve stated numerous times before I remember when no one wanted to work down here. Once the fancy new boats with all the bells and whistles started being built we started seeing the influx of new blood. Once the big raises came y’all tripped all over yourselves to get down here. Anyone having been in the business long enough knows it can be life or death on a lee shore down here during a bust. I don’t fault anyone for giving it a shot if tugs suddenly became the be all boat job I might be tempted myself. Probably not though as I have the bitter taste of a union still in my mouth. I’ll just stay down here push buttons, change filters and hope nothing breaks because I’m to dumb to fix it. Oh and I’ll be sure to have my daily ration of shit sandwich until the next boom when y’all come back and want a bite for your self.[/QUOTE]

One thing that seems to have sparked this whole Joe Boss/Jeaux Boss thing is what ECO did with the 401(k) match. In a union this wouldn’t have been allowed to happen, taking away a benefit that was already earned. It’s the same thing as if you do your hitch and when signing off the boss tells you he’s only going to pay you, say, $300 per day even though when you signed on the agreed rate was $400 per day, and you worked your entire hitch with that understanding. With a union behind you, there’s a written contract , and if they violate that then the union has your back. When it’s just you against Jeaux Boss that fight becomes much harder to win. You might be able to go to court, but Jeaux’s pockets are much deeper and he’ll just wait you out. By the way, in the GOM world, is there ever any sort of written contract?

Another issue people seem to have with Jeaux Boss is the fact that he has total control over when and whether you can work. Which also means if he simply doesn’t like you he’s under no obligation to retain you as an employee. For that matter, you can be canned two days into a 28-day hitch for no other reason than your left eye is just a half-millimeter lower than your right eye, and by God, we don’t like those types around here! With a union, there are steps an employer has to go through in order to fire you or refuse to rehire you if you’re a permanent employee. Yeah, sometimes this means the less-than-deserving get to keep working, but I’d prefer that to walking on eggshells, worried about what mood Jeaux Boss is in today and whether I’ll still have a job tomorrow. Anytime Jeaux Boss has all the control over who gets to work and when, it’s never good for the mariner, and such a system is extremely susceptible to corruption.

I’m in no way suggesting unions are perfect either, no way, but at least with a union (or some sort of representation) you’ve got a chance at taking back some of that control. Otherwise Jeaux Boss holds all of the cards and you work for him on his terms, whatever those terms may be and even if those terms change for no apparent reason other than Jeaux Boss woke up in a bad mood. Some folks are fine with that arrangement, and more power to them (I’m looking at you there Fraq).