Tell you what I’m sick of seeing these foreign boats steeling our jobs. I’m sick of watching good Mariners get pay cuts or loosing their jobs to save money for these big oil companies. It’s hard to believe some people have take 20,40, or 60% pay cuts and these oil companies are still making money hand over fist. BP reported 1q PROFIT of $600 million and she’ll almost 500 million. Let’s us also not forget they continue to pay dividends to their investors too. If the UNION came down tomorrow I would listen to what they had to say. It can’t be any worse then watching our jobs and wages wash away.
I work on a tanker in the gulf and am Union. I see all the layoffs, pay cuts and downgrades. However we just got a raise this year and every year under our contract. We still can’t get engineers. Unions have their faults and without getting into the great debates, I can say that the union has benefitted me.
[QUOTE=Hey;184341] If the UNION came down tomorrow I would listen to what they had to say. It can’t be any worse then watching our jobs and wages wash away.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but your redneck neighbors would rather kill you and the union organizer than lose their chance to take a big pay cut or lose their jobs. They will fight tooth and nail for the right to starve to death while living under a bridge.
yes because jeaux boss is a family man and has been “great” to them over the years despite the fact that they haven’t got a paycheck in 6 months and have been “told” they’re not laid off and therefore not eligible for unemployment…its so much harder to him to bring back a previously “unemployed” person you know.
I’d be all for the union of there was only ONE American maritime union. The way it is now the unions screw their members by underbidding each other to get contracts and such. The workers would actually have power if there were only one union and all mariners refused to sail on vessels that weren’t affiliated with it. The way it is now is like with classification societies, if the company doesn’t like one they can choose to go elsewhere where they get a better deal.
As always, I repeat my often ignored assertion that I’m not pro Union or anti Union, but believe in everyone’s right to organize, or not, without Joe boss corruptly sticking his nose into it.
And batting next…will be all of the comments from GOM anti Union "experts " on all things Union. When their only Union experience comes from being an oiler or AB with SIU. What you will hear next will be a mixture of one part dislike of the Democratic Party and one part dislike of U/L guys. All of us who sail deep sea are fools for paying dues and working long hitches for lower than gulf pay. We have heard it for years. I’m MEBA and like anything else in life there’s good and bad about it. We did have to pay in extra to pension because of all of the old timers taking the lump sum payout, which was still was a small percentage. Which can be seen as a knock against Union pensions, but I prefer this over companies just deciding not to put money that they owe me for my retirement into my account because the price of a barrel of oil has tanked. Oil prices fluctuate which in turn causes the value of the attached equipment and personnel to fluctuate.(Dayrates). So it would be difficult to attach a locked in contracted day rate to someone’s salary. But it seems to me that when oil companies break their contract with either drill ships or supply vessels they’re made to pay a lump sum to get out from under the cost of that piece of equipment to the owners of that equipment. But when that piece of equipment is stacked and the crew is sent packing or put on the “extras” list until they quit on their own so the company doesn’t even have to pay unemployment the equipment owners pocket the money. Maybe organized labor could at very least stop GOM workers from taking it up the tail pipe and saying “thank you boss can I have another” at every down turn.
I’m an expert that works for a company that matches your 401k each pay period.
[QUOTE=Steamer;184385]Yeah but your redneck neighbors would rather kill you and the union organizer than lose their chance to take a big pay cut or lose their jobs. They will fight tooth and nail for the right to starve to death while living under a bridge.[/QUOTE]
The UNION can do nothing to save the oil patch unless they unionize Saudi Arabia.
[QUOTE=Hey;184341]Tell you what I’m sick of seeing these foreign boats steeling our jobs. I’m sick of watching good Mariners get pay cuts or loosing their jobs to save money for these big oil companies. It’s hard to believe some people have take 20,40, or 60% pay cuts and these oil companies are still making money hand over fist. BP reported 1q PROFIT of $600 million and she’ll almost 500 million. Let’s us also not forget they continue to pay dividends to their investors too. If the UNION came down tomorrow I would listen to what they had to say. It can’t be any worse then watching our jobs and wages wash away.[/QUOTE]
Don’t hold your breath waiting on the Union, they don’t show up where there’s no money to be made.
[QUOTE=brjones;184360]I work on a tanker in the gulf and am Union. I see all the layoffs, pay cuts and downgrades. However we just got a raise this year and every year under our contract. We still can’t get engineers. Unions have their faults and without getting into the great debates, I can say that the union has benefitted me.[/QUOTE]
I beat if you posted your company’s name there would be a mad rush on the applications.
Glad you got a rise, but is it more than what they guys in the oil field is making after the pay cuts without the union?
What are they paying the Engineers? That may be why they can’t get anyone. 450/day and a guaranteed 50/day raise every year is not gonna have them knocking the doors down.
not sure what the gulf is making, but a 1ae where I’m at is making about about 150k a year. Working 180 days a year with 180 days paid vacation. Container ships make more and that’s why we have a hard time getting guys on tankers
You’re making a lot more than the 1st A/E on my boat who’s working 8 months a year.
[QUOTE=AB Murph;184409]Glad you got a rise, but is it more than what they guys in the oil field is making after the pay cuts without the union?[/QUOTE]
It’s better than the, what 30%?, that have been laid off are making ($0.00).
[QUOTE=brjones;184411]not sure what the gulf is making, but a 1ae where I’m at is making about about 150k a year. Working 180 days a year with 180 days paid vacation. Container ships make more and that’s why we have a hard time getting guys on tankers[/QUOTE]
So, 1ae makes $900 a day. Good job, can’t figure out why no applications are rolling in.
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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;184414]It’s better than the, what 30%?, that have been laid off are making ($0.00).[/QUOTE]
Yes, and the folks laid off at Wal-Mart are making zero also. Same as the folks that were working at GM. When the auto industry went tits up union didn’t help them much either now did it?
As matter of fact unions caused the crash, not demand for the product.
[QUOTE=AB Murph;184423]When the auto industry went tits up union didn’t help them much either now did it?[/QUOTE]
It didn’t keep them in a job but maybe they had a severance package worth 3 months pay or similar. If there were one single maritime union we could demand that and the companies wouldn’t have a choice.
So what happens after the 1-3 months severance is gone? Do they help you with job placement? When the bad times come it’s usually mass layoffs industry wide. So other than ask you to keep your dues current what does the union do for you in this situation? There were lets say 10k jobs and now there are say 4K available. How do you suddenly find jobs for 6k available people in an industry that doesn’t have the opening? As we’ve seen they can’t suddenly go work in the towing industry. Maybe a few get lucky but the majority don’t. This is not an isolated occurrence this happens every few years and when it does it’s bad. I know people who have been without boat work anywhere between 4-8 months with no end in sight.
When I joined the union out of high school in 91 the desert storm ramp up was beginning to wind down. I had a good run for a few years catching stuff off the board but by the fourth it was feast or famine. We would get together and go to different halls and register then go home and wait til our cards got high on the board. Load up and share hotel rooms or flop on someone’s couch and wait it out for job calls. If we got nothing there we would go re register at wherever the next hall was that had good turnaround. It was easy because we were single with low or no overhead. This is hard to do with family and a mortgage. What happens when you have a permanent job and the entire industry takes a nose dive? How does the union help? What do I get for my dues money? Don’t say benefits because what happens when I can’t get enough sea days in a calendar year to keep my benefits? If I’m in an officers union and I’ve paid $5k in initiation fees and $1k a year in dues what do I get when suddenly unemployed? I’ve got an unlimited masters license and I can’t even catch a 3rd mate spot because I’m one of a thousand suddenly unemployed. Will they pay my bills? Buy me and my family food? Of course they won’t and now I’m right where I’d be without the union looking for work and most likely not in the maritime industry. I’m no expert but help me understand how they help?
I’ve played all three sides of the field (unlicensed union, officer’s union, non-union) for several years each, currently non-union offshore. I’ve been through downturns in all three circumstances (this one being the worst).
One interesting thing we’ve observed with my crew, when the wage cuts came, it was presented in a way that by everyone taking a cut, more people could remain employed. For all the supposed redneck, every-man-for-themselves…people actually agreed with the methodology! Commonly-used phrases included “let’s all help each other out”, “I can adjust if it means keeping my neighbor employed”, and the like.
There have even been old hands asking the younger guys with union backgrounds about their thoughts and how it could benefit them. Of the non-American/USA crew, mostly all prefer collective organization.
It is interesting to ponder what would be different under an organized oilfield. Current situations of people working for different salaries and companies using their license without offering just compensation would probably not exist.
I think the officer’s unions are cleaning up, particularly AMO, but as noted, three different officer’s unions is a bit questionable, considering other countries with greater maritime presence have one union. Each union has been sowing the seeds to their membership that “our union is better than their union”, which of course accomplishes nothing. Each union can learn good (and bad) from each other’s operations. Point is, change - like combining to one, powerful union - won’t happen without member support. We’re all doing this to make a living, and childish banter by all will get nobody ahead. It has been stated time and time again here, competing unions try to out bid each other, benefiting nobody.
And I do believe the $150k/year for 1st A/E. I believe that as a good friend of mine is at that number on a straight day rate job (no OT).
My 401k went away this year, because my employer is having tough times. My insurance premiums more than doubled (over $800/mo now), because my employer is having tough times. My training is no longer paid for, because my employer is having tough times. Their tough times should not affect me to this extent.
[QUOTE=NewEngr;184446]change - like combining to one, powerful union - won’t happen without member support.[/QUOTE]
It’s also very unlikely to happen at all because most of the office cronies would be out of work if all the unions combined. Even if just the three officer’s unions combined into one you only need one set of management so that’s a lot of people (~2/3) being cast out of relatively cushy jobs. The first thing those guys look out for is their own jobs…