Others can chime in with answers to your other questions, but I wanted to point out that dues are not that high. It’s about half of that for annual dues. The initiation is payed out of your earnings.
One thing I can say is I have never been unemployed longer than a week in the last 12 years I have been in the union. One company lays me off and I go back to the hall for new work. The plus side to that is I change companies with no change in benefits and pension. I saw a lot of guys flee for the gulf when the gold rush was on. Hell I considered it my myself. Most of them are now back. They lost the permanent job and company seniority but they are getting out on temp basis. Sure I pay dues, but I never took a pay cut or had to take an unlicensed job. Again people have their beliefs in the union being bad but like I said it has benefited me…as a second generation MEBA it has benefited me my whole life…lol As far as unionize the gulf, that would be a tall order. Let’s face unions are hated by both companies and employees. I heard that transocean actually had talks with SIU because they could not get people fast enough to keep up with the boom. Not sure how much truth to that but I’m sure those talks stalled now
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;184449]Others can chime in with answers to your other questions, but I wanted to point out that dues are not that high. It’s about half of that for annual dues. The initiation is payed out of your earnings.[/QUOTE]
MMP offshore dues $100/Qtr. Same since at least 2002.
initiation used to be $4500.00.
If your license (new 3/m) was less than a year old, I think initiation was $2000-2500.
[QUOTE=brjones;184411]not sure what the gulf is making, but a 1ae where I’m at is making about about 150k a year. Working 180 days a year with 180 days paid vacation. Container ships make more and that’s why we have a hard time getting guys on tankers[/QUOTE]
I work on container ships (not engineer) and that sounds a bit low. Are their some container ship MEBA 1 A/E making $150k? Probably but on my last ship it was known that the 1 A/E made the most on the ship, more than the Chief and more than the Master. Probably about the same as a Chief Eng at ECO or a bit more, for 6 months of work.
Unlicensed Electricians and Reefers do real well and make as much as and often more than a 3rd A/E. All big ship engineers are in demand. If you show up at the hall with those type of skills/credentials you won’t be waiting long to work.
[QUOTE=Hawespiper5;184463]I work on container ships (not engineer) and that sounds about right. On my last ship it was known that the 1 A/E made the most on the ship. About the same as a Chief Eng at ECO and only 6 months a year.[/QUOTE]
As I said in my first post I would be open to hear what the union has to say. I neglected to mention that I previously sailed with a union for a few years and experienced the good and the bad. I think that if a union (any union) would come to the gulf and start putting feelers out it would shake up some things. If change is going to take place down here its not going to be because Chouest, Shane Guidry, or Todd Hornbeck have the Mariners best interest at heart. If the Mariners don’t make it happen for ourselves We have no one to blame but ourselves.
If we want to get these foreign boats out of U.S. waters and replace them with Americans that deserve the job then your going to have to do some lobbying at a pretty high level. Are the unions the best lobbiest probably not but its better than the ones we have now.
Im not ready to sign on the dotted line and pledge my loyalty to the union brotherhood just yet. However I think it would be worth looking into as a way to shake things up. I don’t think there is an American on this forum that doesn’t want the best for his country or family. You can bank That Gary is going to keep building those big Island Enforcer type boats. This will take work from American ship yards and skip on paying the U.S. Taxes by flying some cheap flag of convenience. Something needs to give or your going to be looking around and asking how did I go from making $1k a day to $300. RIP GOM GOLD RUSH
[QUOTE=Hey;184490]As I said in my first post I would be open to hear what the union has to say. I neglected to mention that I previously sailed with a union for a few years and experienced the good and the bad. I think that if a union (any union) would come to the gulf and start putting feelers out it would shake up some things.[/QUOTE]
Just the grumblings within the company after they refused to match the 2014 401k scared Chouest. They made all bridge officers sign an anti union “loyalty oath” that also contained some outright lies in it as to the law. It was discussed on here, and the text released in full, about a year ago…
Fraqrat, I’m a little late to the forum game here, but you do know that HOS hasn’t matched anything in the 401k since the last pay period of 2014, right? Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
[QUOTE=Hawespiper5;184463]I work on container ships (not engineer) and that sounds about right. On my last ship it was known that the 1 A/E made the most on the ship. About the same as a Chief Eng at ECO and only 6 months a year.[/QUOTE]
pls clarify…
That would not be MEBA full contract MLL or Matson C-9. 1A/E with OT for MLL MEBA is very close to $30k per month x 6mos/yr.
Oh trust me I know but prior to that it was matched every pay period.
[QUOTE=NewEngr;184446]I’ve played all three sides of the field (unlicensed union, officer’s union, non-union) for several years each, currently non-union offshore. I’ve been through downturns in all three circumstances (this one being the worst).
One interesting thing we’ve observed with my crew, when the wage cuts came, it was presented in a way that by everyone taking a cut, more people could remain employed. For all the supposed redneck, every-man-for-themselves…people actually agreed with the methodology! Commonly-used phrases included “let’s all help each other out”, “I can adjust if it means keeping my neighbor employed”, and the like.
There have even been old hands asking the younger guys with union backgrounds about their thoughts and how it could benefit them. Of the non-American/USA crew, mostly all prefer collective organization.
It is interesting to ponder what would be different under an organized oilfield. Current situations of people working for different salaries and companies using their license without offering just compensation would probably not exist.
I think the officer’s unions are cleaning up, particularly AMO, but as noted, three different officer’s unions is a bit questionable, considering other countries with greater maritime presence have one union. Each union has been sowing the seeds to their membership that “our union is better than their union”, which of course accomplishes nothing. Each union can learn good (and bad) from each other’s operations. Point is, change - like combining to one, powerful union - won’t happen without member support. We’re all doing this to make a living, and childish banter by all will get nobody ahead. It has been stated time and time again here, competing unions try to out bid each other, benefiting nobody.
And I do believe the $150k/year for 1st A/E. I believe that as a good friend of mine is at that number on a straight day rate job (no OT).
My 401k went away this year, because my employer is having tough times. My insurance premiums more than doubled (over $800/mo now), because my employer is having tough times. My training is no longer paid for, because my employer is having tough times. Their tough times should not affect me to this extent.[/QUOTE]
Your last sentence is pretty assanine. So when your company is hemorrhaging cash and just trying to stay in business you expect them to just not make any changes to their operating expense(s)? Just keep making sure YOU are happy and who cares about the business surviving? If the company doesn’t survive then neither do you.
In a downturn like this everyone is sharing the pain financially. No company has enough money to not make changes to their expenses when revenues have been slashed by 50% or more. If you don’t believe this then your delusional and need to get informed on how the world works.
MEBA initiation is $4k deducted from your check over a couple years then $100 a quarter. If you are sailing as MEBA applicant with MSC as a CIVMAR initiation is waved after 720 days sailed. With MSC it is day for day group status credit while sailing gray hulls. You don’t walk in and write a 4K initiation check to join. But a Chief Limited/ Chief OSV/DDE isn’t going to cut it. The smallest ticket that you can have is a 3rd. So if you are getting “first hand” knowledge from someone about MEBA it would probably be best to get it from someone that has actually sailed with them, and not just shipped as oiler with SIU.
[QUOTE=Hey;184490]As I said in my first post I would be open to hear what the union has to say. I neglected to mention that I previously sailed with a union for a few years and experienced the good and the bad. I think that if a union (any union) would come to the gulf and start putting feelers out it would shake up some things. If change is going to take place down here its not going to be because Chouest, Shane Guidry, or Todd Hornbeck have the Mariners best interest at heart. If the Mariners don’t make it happen for ourselves We have no one to blame but ourselves.
If we want to get these foreign boats out of U.S. waters and replace them with Americans that deserve the job then your going to have to do some lobbying at a pretty high level. Are the unions the best lobbiest probably not but its better than the ones we have now.
Im not ready to sign on the dotted line and pledge my loyalty to the union brotherhood just yet. However I think it would be worth looking into as a way to shake things up. I don’t think there is an American on this forum that doesn’t want the best for his country or family. You can bank That Gary is going to keep building those big Island Enforcer type boats. This will take work from American ship yards and skip on paying the U.S. Taxes by flying some cheap flag of convenience. Something needs to give or your going to be looking around and asking how did I go from making $1k a day to $300. RIP GOM GOLD RUSH[/QUOTE]
My thoughts and observations: I hear/read a LOT of talk on this forum about unions in the oil patch. The pros and cons have been debated ad infinitum but here is the rub. I have never heard from, or heard that others had heard from, any union representative of any kind what so ever in any way, shape, or form. Where are these unions you speak of? Why don’t THEY present their side of the story? This seems to be missing from every union argument on this forum. Just sayin’
It has to come from the employees. Whether that somehow means they form their own Union or band together and work to be part of one of the bigger maritime unions. Either way they have to be the ones organizing and starting it. I would imagine that a lot of those guys wouldn’t qualify to be in the MMP or MEBAs “Offshore Membership Group” unless they’re holding Unlimited licenses and those billets have to be U/L as well. So really the best option, in my opinion, is for them to form a Union on their own then try to merge with a larger Union after they build a solid foundation.
Dues just went up to $150 a quarter. Not sure about the ticket either. We have the oilers on the WSF and although a lot of those guys do hold a license not all of them do. But yeah to ship of the board and all the other companies you have to have an unlimited license
they can do like MMP did in NY with the Atlantic division and create the gulf division. It’s not an ideal arrangement as everyone’s opinion varies about each Union but at least you’d have a big Union behind you.
I am an uniformed limited license former SIU oiler who doesn’t know anything. Please explain to me what the union will do when 60%-70% of the work force is suddenly unemployed in a 12 month period? This will be all positions with a mix of limited and unlimited license holders and unlicensed ratings. How will the union suddenly absorb and find jobs for thousands of people? I know for a FACT many former shipmates were/are still struggling to get work with their unions. I know for a FACT that no NE tug outfit will even look at an ex-OSV mariners application.
I’m from Alabama so you will have to help me with the math. Regardless of which union or limited, UL license or unlicensed rating how do they get work for their membership? If I have 1000 members working and say 100 that are available for relief rotary jobs everything is great. What happens when suddenly I only have 400 working and now have 700 looking for work THAT ISN’T THERE AND WONT BE THERE FOR POSSIBLY YEARS?!?!? One months severance doesn’t do shit for me after that month is up if I can’t get any more work. Will the union pay monthly mortgages for unemployed members? Does the union ship groceries for a family of five to the unemployed members doorstep every month? Does the union go out and strong arm rob another union of their jobs to give to their unemployed members? If so what happens to those now unemployed mariners at the other union?
The GOM situation is just like surge shipping for Desert Storm except it happens every 3-5 years. I know first hand what happened when the work slowed down during that time. I’m truly happy for all of you who currently have union jobs and have had them or are retired from the union. Since you’re employed you can still afford to buy drinks. How bout pouring one out for your unemployed non union brothers of the sea next time you’re tipping them back.
Unions are a lot like health insurance: you’re always paying into it. Usually it doesn’t do much. But when something happens it can help soften the blow with training or help finding a new job.
However if you’re struck by a fatal and incurable illness you’re still going to die - insurance or no. This downturn, caused by an unexpected fundamental change in Saudi behavior, is the proverbial treatment resistant, highly communicable and fatal disease.
That is about the best analogy and perspective I’ve ever read. Well said.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;184526]I am an uniformed limited license former SIU oiler who doesn’t know anything. Please explain to me what the union will do when 60%-70% of the work force is suddenly unemployed in a 12 month period? This will be all positions with a mix of limited and unlimited license holders and unlicensed ratings. How will the union suddenly absorb and find jobs for thousands of people? I know for a FACT many former shipmates were/are still struggling to get work with their unions. I know for a FACT that no NE tug outfit will even look at an ex-OSV mariners application.
I’m from Alabama so you will have to help me with the math. Regardless of which union or limited, UL license or unlicensed rating how do they get work for their membership? If I have 1000 members working and say 100 that are available for relief rotary jobs everything is great. What happens when suddenly I only have 400 working and now have 700 looking for work THAT ISN’T THERE AND WONT BE THERE FOR POSSIBLY YEARS?!?!? One months severance doesn’t do shit for me after that month is up if I can’t get any more work. Will the union pay monthly mortgages for unemployed members? Does the union ship groceries for a family of five to the unemployed members doorstep every month? Does the union go out and strong arm rob another union of their jobs to give to their unemployed members? If so what happens to those now unemployed mariners at the other union?
The GOM situation is just like surge shipping for Desert Storm except it happens every 3-5 years. I know first hand what happened when the work slowed down during that time. I’m truly happy for all of you who currently have union jobs and have had them or are retired from the union. Since you’re employed you can still afford to buy drinks. How bout pouring one out for your unemployed non union brothers of the sea next time you’re tipping them back.[/QUOTE]
From what I have seen personally it would be a great and profound revelation if the companies would just handle their cutbacks in an orderly and predefined manner. Most of what has happened and continues to happen is now the companies hold all the cards and people have been terminated willy-nilly and this puts tremendous pressure on remaining crews to do as they are told. The unknown is very stressful and paranoia is rampant. You seem to be working so it wouldn’t surprise me that you miss the point. Unions can’t stop the inevitable but maybe they can help provide some order, compassion, and structure. I have seen some of the most disrespectful and non-professional conduct during this downturn that I can’t believe they live with themselves. Truly sad!
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;184501]pls clarify…
That would not be MEBA full contract MLL or Matson C-9. 1A/E with OT for MLL MEBA is very close to $30k per month x 6mos/yr.[/QUOTE]
What’s your issue? $850 per day over 240 days is actually a little more than your quoted salary.
But: ECO went forced equal time, so that doesn’t really apply anymore (though the original guy was inferring 2for 1).