Get out while the gettin's good?

Black gold, GOM tea…old Jed is doing very well: cars, mortgages, etc., etc.

But for how long? Is Jed squirreling away his salary for the inevitable day (oh you know it is coming) when the bottom drops-out and the pink slips come a-knockin’ ?

[U]Points for consideration (certainly not an exhaustive list):[/U]

-OSV day rates are on the increase, what is the ceiling?
-Are some of the ridiculously high salaries viable in the future for companies to offer?
-The newbuilds are impressive, but come with impressive debt.
-Drilling is going deeper and deeper to find oil, is it profitable and sustainable?

-Will the next accident (God forbid) drive a stake through the GOM oil industry?
-Will the oil companies get overwhelmed with increased government regulation and oversight in the GOM and simply move on?

It is my opinion that a man of 30 something today will not be able to retire from the oil patch osv industry. I would not encourage young-bucks to come to the osv realm for the long-haul. As a former businessman, I know that all companies have an exit plan formulated, and plans in place to cut the excess “fat” when required. Even when they are at the top of the mountain the MBAs’ are planning for the fall; it is only business after all.

When will the bubble burst–5, 10, or perhaps 20 years?

-OSV day rates are on the increase, what is the ceiling?

Law of supply and demand, as it is the rates are still not as high as they where in 2007-2008. Some AHTS where getting $100k+ a day, and supply boats where making $40k+ on the spot market.

-Are some of the ridiculously high salaries viable in the future for companies to offer?

Again supply and demand, with an increasing average age of your Merchant Mariner you have to do something to bring new blood in and as they say money talks. The flip side is that maybe the industry becomes flooded with guys and wages go down because there is always someone willing to work for less just to have a job. While this might be true for guys working deck Officer Pay will be hold steady as they license are not easy to get and with the ever increasing requirements of STCW will keep getting harder to get and the old guys are retiring very quickly.

-The newbuilds are impressive, but come with impressive debt.

What people forget is that these assets can be moved around the world. So they can keep the boats working, sucks if your a Hand or a Mate, so I encourage every one to get their Master of Oceans so they can go overseas if they have to.

-Drilling is going deeper and deeper to find oil, is it profitable and sustainable?

That’s a silly question. While it is cheaper to stay on land or even the shelf, the big companies know that you have to have a balanced portfolio. With very few to no large untapped reserves available on land or on the shelf where else is there to go? The projects they are bringing on line right now are projected to flow for at least 40 years right now, who knows how long as technology keeps improving. Also history has proven the longer one does something the cheaper and more efficient if becomes. What is considered deep and bleeding edge now will be an everyday occurrence in 10 years.

-Will the next accident (God forbid) drive a stake through the GOM oil industry?

Already had one earlier this month, and you did not hear a peep out side of the industry about it. I’m pretty sure the administration got slapped pretty hard for their reaction to DWH behind close doors. Notice that the President has been show golfing with Oil Executives and while he talks a big game about decreasing fossil fuel usage he has done very little to curb it. Politics are about the money and nobody writes bigger checks then the oil companies.

-Will the oil companies get overwhelmed with increased government regulation and oversight in the GOM and simply move on?

While the US is one of the most expensive places to drill it is one of the most political stable places on the planet to drill, plus the oil companies get to keep more of what they get out of the ground then any where else, and that means a lot to the Oil Companies. Lets look at the rest of the world for a second. the North Sea is on the decline, production has been falling for years and there is no end in sight. The Middle East is in constant strife with countries constantly on the verge of civil war. If Africa the bribes being payed out just to get groceries delivered has to get old. Brazil is increasingly hostile to any oil company that is not Petrobras. Combine that with the fact that you never know if any of the above will randomly decide to nationalize everything and the US looks pretty good even with it’s regulatory burdens.

As it is the rising wages and working condition in the Gulf good for all aspects of the industry. Eventually the guys up north on tugs will get a raise as more and more of their talent is taken away from them.

If you don’t think the OSV side will last where do you think guys like me should go?

To tugs?
I have no wish to go run a tug and deal with the crazy shit that goes on as can be found in threads on this site and deal with unions that are only out to see how deep in my pocket they can stick their hand.

Get a fishing boat?
Please fishing is a dead industry, one that has truly been killed off by the regulators.

Get my unlimited and try to get on a freighter?
Let’s consider for a second that an over seas company would even consider hiring an American. I don’t know if you have followed the trends lately of the shipping industry but those guys have had it way rougher then any OSV company and the hits just keep coming. In fact the big OSV’s are making twice what the average super tanker is making right now. Talk about an industry is small margins. As it is most of those companies are gong broke.

Go slum it with MSC?
I’m sorry I have pride in my work, have low tolerance for those that don’t, actually like to make a living, and see my family more the a few days every few months.

God forbid a real job on land and have to deal with rush hour traffic?
I have already spent years and what equates to a collage education to get where I am, so I’m just supposed to chunk it all away because some former “Business Man” says that OSV’s are a bad career move? So I now need to either take up a job doing manually hard manual labor so I can work my way back to the top, or go spend another $30k+ on a collage eduction.

I’m not going to be so presumptuous as to say something like the 80’s will ever happen again, but with more and more countries entering first world status and needing more and more energy to get there the chances do get slimmer every year consumption goes up.

The owners and operators of the large OSV companies didn’t get to where they are today by making bad business decisions. I’m not deterred by the debt incurred by the company I work for because that is above my pay grade. But i do know that every new OSV is built for a reason, and that reason is to support the rapidly expanding fleet of drilling and production rigs. The oil industry is a big business, and it failing, or the bubble popping is possible, but not on the scale that you are speaking of (my personal opinion). There is oil all over the world, and if the GoM fell through, the rigs would move and so would the OSVs. Sure day rates could and probably would drop, but like you said, hopefully everyone is squirreling away the money they are receiving, just in case. I don’t feel that discouraging younger guys from this industry is good idea because it is a great profession and can be financially rewarding if you’re smart about it.

When or how “bad” it bursts, I do not know as I don’t work in that sector and on account of that maybe I am more skeptical/objective; maybe its jealousy over the day-rates too, BUT…

Its not going to last forever as the latest and greatest; if its too good to be true, it probably is. Will day rates get cut from where they are? Probably not unless something drastic happens, but will they keep going up? I think its unlikely as far as trends go to see MUCH more. Whats payroll for a 300’ OSV? My big concern is that someone gets their way with Jones act nonsense that will hurt the entire maritime industry, but once again being partial i think it will effect the OSV/drilling end harder than others. But then again, how many thousand foreigners with licenses are sitting at home with their thumbs up their ass? I continually read the mariner “shortage” is universal. In my ivory tower I would like to think you could replace a DPO with a foreigner easier than someone who moves a 100k BBL barge through pilotage water theirself, but thats just my uninformed opinion. If nothing else it will create a ton of work for pilots who currently have that skill, so not a total loss; but that in itself will cut way into any savings of using foreigners. If you disagree that foreigners don’t make less then why the hell do they want them so bad? There has to be savings.

When will it burst? Who knows. Will it burst? Maybe not, probably it will “deflate” in due time. If the gulf is so great why does everyone have tonnage working overseas? Expenses must be less domestically, just on a nuts and bolts operational level.

Deter from working there? No way, go do it. just don’t expect it to last forever. Can’t expect anything to last forever anyways.

[QUOTE=Arbeit Macht Frei;116298]Black gold, GOM tea…old Jed is doing very well: cars, mortgages, etc., etc.

But for how long? Is Jed squirreling away his salary for the inevitable day (oh you know it is coming) when the bottom drops-out and the pink slips come a-knockin’ ?

[U]Points for consideration (certainly not an exhaustive list):[/U]

-OSV day rates are on the increase, what is the ceiling?
-Are some of the ridiculously high salaries viable in the future for companies to offer?
-The newbuilds are impressive, but come with impressive debt.
-Drilling is going deeper and deeper to find oil, is it profitable and sustainable?

-Will the next accident (God forbid) drive a stake through the GOM oil industry?
-Will the oil companies get overwhelmed with increased government regulation and oversight in the GOM and simply move on?

It is my opinion that a man of 30 something today will not be able to retire from the oil patch osv industry. I would not encourage young-bucks to come to the osv realm for the long-haul. As a former businessman, I know that all companies have an exit plan formulated, and plans in place to cut the excess “fat” when required. Even when they are at the top of the mountain the MBAs’ are planning for the fall; it is only business after all.

When will the bubble burst–5, 10, or perhaps 20 years?

[/QUOTE]

I have often thought some of the same things. How long will it last? I can tell you I have been saving. It makes me nervous to know that my profession is driven by the price of oil. I have not increased my standard of living since 2002. I actually have less bills today then I did back then. I do not see an end in sight for now. I think we will see a plateau on day rates and pay. I would not get in over my head right now, even though it is never a good idea to live above your means. I read a book written by Dave Ramsey, called the total money make over and I wished I had read it earlier. Building wealth and being debt free is like releasing yourself from prison. Being prepared for the unexpected but living your life to the fullest.

It’s all fun and games until your have to wake up at 0500 and be a parent.

I guess I wll just ask this in here instead of making a whole new thread, what do offshore windfarms mean for the future of the industry? Do you think the jobs created would balance out the job lost from less demand/less need for oil? I’m excited to see what is about to be popping up off the coasts of Rhode Island, Massachussettes, and Virginia.

And Maine. And there is no comparison in any way shape or form between offshore wind and offshore oil.

[QUOTE=“desertrat85;116342”]I guess I wll just ask this in here instead of making a whole new thread, what do offshore windfarms mean for the future of the industry? Do you think the jobs created would balance out the job lost from less demand/less need for oil? I’m excited to see what is about to be popping up off the coasts of Rhode Island, Massachussettes, and Virginia.[/QUOTE]

They won’t decrease the need for oil. They will be providing electricity, so they may decrease the demand for coal, but not oil.

I’m thinking maybe a few jobs for maintenance but I bet a foreign vessel will do a lot of the construction work seeing as how they are the only ones with “expertise.”

yeah i suppose your right, sometimes I think a fully electric car is right around the corner with all the buzz around Tesla Motors but I don’t know.

They may reduce the need for natural gas and oil (no. 6 oil). There aren’t too many coal fired plants left up that way, the majority are oil or NG fired plants. Wind farms are great for mitigating the use of any fossil fuel but are unreliable regardless, due to the fact that wind isn’t constant. Fossil fuels or nuclear are the only energy sources (with the exception of certain hydro projects) that can be utilized on an at needed basis.

It will reduce the need (and not by much) but not eliminate it.

I’ve been working in the GOM for 40 years and have seen many ups and downs. I’m not worried.

Ive only got one question… how $#%@-ING bright is someone to come up with an online name using “Arbeit Macht Frein”… really…? Gotta ask…

I have often wondered about these questions and just never got around to asking the forum. I work in the tug and barge industry and sometimes think of packing up my gear and trying to get a nice higher paying osv job. My company treats me well so for the time being its where I plan on staying. I do think the day rates that some of these boats can get is crazy and even how money flows around the oil industry in general. Even if you only had five good years left you could still make 10 years worth of pay compared to other sectors.
I personally think that the pay rates vs skill level is very unbalanced. I’m not saying the guys don’t deserve the high wages they get. I just wonder is the vast pay differences between different sectors in the industry will have a negative effect at some point in the future.

[QUOTE=BargeMonkey;116361]Ive only got one question… how $#%@-ING bright is someone to come up with an online name using “Arbeit Macht Frein”… really…? Gotta ask…[/QUOTE]

I always treat someone with ONE tiny post with suspicion and I think this clown gets that in spades with such a username which translates to English as “labor makes (you) free”!

That saying was posted at the entrance to concentration camps by the SS! FUCKING NAZI SCUM!

WTF herr Obergruppenmeisteruberfurher?

Get the FUCK out of here and don’t come back I say!

.

I will simply say that I agree 100% with Jemplayer’s answers to the original post and cannot add or take a contrary position to anything he states. The amount of equipment being built if not on some wild speculation by the various players but a clear knowledge that oil reserves are in decline worldwide and the only place where oil is to be found in great abundance is in the offshore provinces of the planet and the most attractive of all those places is the GoM where the US government only takes a very small fraction of the value of the oil extracted and doesn’t demand part ownership in any field. Very very few other governments in the world are that forgiving regardless of the regulations imposed.

The only thing which would create a great downturn in the fortunes of the GoM is a sudden decrease in the size of the plays and the ultimate realization that there isn’t as much oil out there as everyone was expecting. Of course, if that is the case, then there is is the Arctic.

[QUOTE=c.captain;116372]I will simply say that I agree 100% with Jemplayer’s answers to the original post and cannot add or take a contrary position to anything he states. The amount of equipment being built if not on some wild speculation by the various players but a clear knowledge that oil reserves are in decline worldwide and the only place where oil is to be found in great abundance is in the offshore provinces of the planet and the most attractive of all those places is the GoM where the US government only takes a very small fraction of the value of the oil extracted and doesn’t demand part ownership in any field. Very very few other governments in the world are that forgiving regardless of the regulations imposed.

The only thing which would create a great downturn in the fortunes of the GoM is a sudden decrease in the size of the plays and the ultimate realization that there isn’t as much oil out there as everyone was expecting. Of course, if that is the case, then there is is the Arctic.[/QUOTE]

True, with the prosecution of companies paying bribes to operate and the instability of other countries the oil companies have come to realize that it is cheap to operate in the USA. In other countries they have this strange notion that the resources belong to the citizens of the country whereas in the USA they belong to the highest bidder with a relatively small royalty involved. Considering the stability of the USA, the business friendly climate and the relative lack of regulation [compared to other developed countries] the USA is a win/win for producers. Barring a worldwide recession I don’t see a slow down.

[QUOTE=desertrat85;116342]I guess I wll just ask this in here instead of making a whole new thread, what do offshore windfarms mean for the future of the industry? Do you think the jobs created would balance out the job lost from less demand/less need for oil? I’m excited to see what is about to be popping up off the coasts of Rhode Island, Massachussettes, and Virginia.[/QUOTE]

Im betting the next chapter of my career on the hope that offshore drilling will start off the coast of VA/NC. Ill be heading down to the gulf soon to try for a job on an OSV with the hope that I can get some experience in that sector and when the drilling does begin (hopefully) off the mid atlantic ill be in a good position to be working close to home again. However with the crop of worthless politicians we have these days and the stupid enviro-nazis im still prepared to stay in the GOM or maybe Brazil.

I for one never expected to earn the day rate I’m making now, not in my wildest dreams. I wonder how much higher it can go. I think if companies want to stabilize their workforce over the long term against high flyers like Harvey, they should take a look at working conditions more than day rates. 28/28, salary standardization, better amenities, company arranged and paid travel, overtime pay when crew changes are late, etc. A vessel operator that can improve the quality of life of its employees while limiting the need for future pay cuts or layoffs by keeping wages at sustainable levels will probably not have many problems when it comes to employee loyalty. We spend a lot of time away from home and it’s pretty disheartening to see the rig crew coming and going like clockwork when your crew change is late or by crewboat because of the money saved by not putting you on a chopper.

[QUOTE=Bayrunner;116384]Im betting the next chapter of my career on the hope that offshore drilling will start off the coast of VA/NC. Ill be heading down to the gulf soon to try for a job on an OSV with the hope that I can get some experience in that sector and when the drilling does begin (hopefully) off the mid atlantic ill be in a good position to be working close to home again. However with the crop of worthless politicians we have these days and the stupid enviro-nazis im still prepared to stay in the GOM or maybe Brazil.[/QUOTE]

You are silly if you think the “enviro-nazis” control the drilling in the USA. They haven’t enough money to control anything. There is more than enough oil in the GOM to keep everyone busy for many years to come as recent drilling contracts prove; besides that if you want to work close to home why in the world would you want to be a mariner? That is like saying I want to be a sailor so I can be close to my wife.