I am an academy graduate with my 3rd Assistant Engineer license. I’m in my first job out of school and trying to make sense out of the very vaige OSV endorsements. All my sea time has been on unlimited horse power OSVs that fall under the 6000 ITC license. Since I have unlimited time I can upgrade to a 2nd A/E and so fourth up the unlimited ladder but my company wants me to get my 6000 ITC endorsement. I have been trying to make sense of the CFRs and marine safety manual and keep hitting dead ends. I have people trying to tell me that I need to downgrade to a DDE Unlimited in order to get my Chief OSV, but that doesn’t make much sense to me. What exactly are the requirements to get a Chief OSV and do I qualify? I do know that once I get my chief OSV, my company has an assesment program that I have to follow and sign off to get the 6000 ITC.
I believe your 3AE is a DDE Unlimited as well so no need to downgrade. I would say, unless you get more specific advice from someone here, when you have the time for 2AE apply for that as well as chief osv, chief limited, and every other limited level engineering license higher than 2AE. All they can do is say no…
There is no limited level engineering license “higher than” 2AE, those licenses are limited to 3000 tons ITC. That is why the guy’s employer has a 6000 ton endorsement program.
Until acquiring an unlimited chief’s ticket, an unlimited engineer is an assistant. A 3rd assistant engineer is not a chief of anything and unless he holds a DDE endorsement, isn’t a DDE either.
When the OP has enough time to get a 2nd AE he can apply for a limited chief and then take the company program to raise the tonnage restriction.
So when I send in my time for my upgrade to 2nd A/E, I know the limited chief license is a freebie. So then with a limited chief do I even need to bother with chief OSV to go get to the 6000 ITC down the line?
Go to the NMC checklist page and you will find what you need to get the OSV 6000. Even at the lower levels there is no free lunch.
A chief limited is higher than 2ae. He can sail as chief! Like how a 1600 ton master is a higher license than a 2m.
I was pretty sure that a 3ae allowed service as a dde unlimited in the same way a 3m allows service as a 100 ton master.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;63939]A chief limited is higher than 2ae. [/QUOTE]
Really? See how far one gets trying to ship out as even a 3 A/E much less 2nd.
There are two licensing systems, one is lower level and the other is unlimited. Lower level is just what the words mean, lower level.
No lower level license holder is going to fill a billet that calls for an unlimited license.
DDE unlimited is a 500 ton ocean license and can serve as chief up to 500 ton. A 3rd A/E is an assistant and nothing more. You cannot run as a dde on a vessel requiring a DDE, such as tugs or what not 500 tons and under. Now if he had a DDE 4000 like some of the maritime guys I worked with along with the 3rd thats a different story.
Its not a freebie (chief limited), you will test for it.
[QUOTE=power230;63941]DDE unlimited is a 500 ton ocean license and can serve as chief up to 500 ton. A 3rd A/E is an assistant and nothing more. You cannot run as a dde on a vessel requiring a DDE, such as tugs or what not 500 tons and under. Now if he had a DDE 4000 like some of the maritime guys I worked with along with the 3rd thats a different story.[/QUOTE]
I can have my DDE 4000 handed to me now. The DDE unlimited requires 6 months sea time (which I have) and a letter of recomendation on company letter head.
[QUOTE=power230;63942]Its not a freebie (chief limited), you will test for it.[/QUOTE]
It looks like I will meet the requirements to get my chief limited near coastal, but I will have to test for it.
In that case I think I will just wait and take the 1st A/E and Chief Unlimited exam in an other year of sea time.
Also I checked the NMC checklists and they are pretty helpful! Thanks for the tip.
I can get my DDE and Chief OSV 3000 ITC simultaneously. I guess since I qualify for my DDE now, I can apply now and get my Chief OSV 3000 and start the ball rolling on the training to get the 6000 ITC.
That really clears everything up. Thanks for the help
True, but the limit is tonnage, not rank. A chief limited is a chief engineer, a 2ae is an assistant engineer. Chief > assistant just like 1600 ton master > 3m. Yes, the unlimited license allows working on a larger vessel, but at a lower capacity.
The decider is, on a vessel where a chief limited can serve, what would a 2ae be? An assistant? Then his license is lower…
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;63948]The decider is …[/QUOTE]
You’re going to have to do better than that if you want to try and argue about that kind of silliness.
It is like saying the owner of a one man pizza parlor is “higher” than the CEO of General Foods since the CEO doesn’t own the company.
A 2nd A/E can get a limited chief engineer (oceans) for the asking but there is no way a limited chief oceans can serve in any licensed capacity on an unlimited vessel.
Lower level means what it says … live with it.
Bigger tonnage does not equal higher. You can believe what you want but when it comes down to it a 3ae is still just an assistant. It may be on a bigger boat, but it is still an assistant.
(Try telling cappy208 a 3m has a higher license than him. He will educate you quick.)
So, the best “cappy208” can do is work as an AB on the baby mate’s ship … is that lower level enough for you?
The term “lower level” is a USCG term, it defines the limitations of the license. A lower level license is easier to get and has more restrictions. If that were not the case there would not be a license called “unlimited” that is a higher license in terms of tonnage, horsepower, and area of service.
What part of that is so difficult to understand?
The part where you claim that being an assistant is a higher “level” than being a chief. Even though the chief is limited on what size vessel he can work on he still works as a higher rating than the assistant.
In short:
Chief > Assistant
&
Bigger Boat =/= higher license
(The 3ae is a bigger license, but still also a lower license.)
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;63939]…I was pretty sure that a 3ae allowed service as a dde unlimited in the same way a 3m allows service as a 100 ton master.[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t, see 46 CFR 15.915 (the 3rd mate equivalent is in 46 15.901(a)).
Get the 6000 ITC assessment book and complete all the silly checkoffs prior to applying, and you won’t have to deal with upgrading from 3000ITC.
Thanks. I was going off something the Boston REC told me 4 years ago, but I had never seen it in writing. Now I know it was wrong…
[QUOTE=SoCalSalt;63992]Get the 6000 ITC assessment book and complete all the silly checkoffs prior to applying, and you won’t have to deal with upgrading from 3000ITC.[/QUOTE]
I can’t go straight to the 6000. The 6000 requires you either hold a limited chief or a 3000 OSV chief license. Which is stupid because all my time is on ships over 3000 gross tons.
However there is no sea time requirement to jump from the 3000 to the 6000. So Once I have the 3000 all I have to do is get the check offs complete and then immediately apply for the 6000.
[QUOTE=Tanko;63999]However there is no sea time requirement to jump from the 3000 to the 6000. So Once I have the 3000 all I have to do is get the check offs complete and then immediately apply for the 6000.[/QUOTE]
The terms of the approval of the training programs require you to have experience as chief engineer on OSVs less than 3000 GT, and the program must have at least 56 days of training on large OSVs (over 3000 GT).