Yet another 500grt question

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Currently hold a 500GRT Masters Oceans, no DP, and have no >100 ton sea time. Would like to achieve 1600 w/ DP, but I’m in a quandary, as I see it, because in order to advance my tonnage I need to hire on a >100 ton boat, necessarily a non-DP vessel. How do I then gain DP experience? Before the pointy sticks come out, I promise I have searched throughout the boards with no real answer, but if anyone can provide a link to a current post, I’ll be quiet :smiley:

I see HOS has a mate-in-training program, for example, but they require 1600 as a prerequisite. I was hoping somebody had some insight into similar programs involving the smaller ticket, or insight on a general course of action on my part.

Any advice on strategy is greatly appreciated.

2

If you hold 500 grt Masters you may ask for a 3000 ITC OSV endorsement from the USCG. This is equivalent to a 1600 GRT Master but only on OSVs. As far as DP goes there is currently no way around it. Have you considered taking a AB position?

3

[QUOTE=Tcaptain;133975]If you hold 500 grt Masters you may ask for a 3000 ITC OSV endorsement from the USCG. This is equivalent to a 1600 GRT Master but only on OSVs. As far as DP goes there is currently no way around it. Have you considered taking a AB position?[/QUOTE]

Tcaptain:

Thank you.

Your first point is certainly valid according to this post in another thread:

[LEFT][B]NMC Policy Letter 07-00 Nov. 14, 2000[/B][/LEFT]

[LEFT]a. Master and mate licenses
(1) A mariner licensed as master or mate 1,600 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may
have the license endorsed as valid for service on vessels of not more than 3,000 GT. This
endorsement is not limited to service on OSVs. It is included here as a convenient reference
about endorsements that will allow such mariners to serve on OSVs measuring between 1,600
and 3,000 gross tons.
B A mariner licensed as master 500 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may have the[/B]
[B]license endorsed as valid for service on OSVs of not more than 3,000 GT on near coastal,[/B]
[B]domestic voyages.[/B]
(3) A mariner licensed as mate 500 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may have the
license endorsed as valid for service on OSVs of not more than 3,000 GT on near coastal,[/LEFT]
domestic voyages.

So I will pursue that angle, unless there has been a change to the policy.

On you second point:

I certainly would accept an AB position, but I guess I need someone to spell out for me how that gets me closer to the DP gear. I’m willing to spring for the induction class, but it is the DP time that I (and I assume others) need a game plan for. Any help here is appreciated.

4

Tcaptain is correct about getting the 3000 ITC endorsement. A good number of the OSVs are running under ITC tonnage, and the endorsement will get you in. Same as a 1600 GRT license.

Another option would be to get on a crewboat using dual tonnage. If the vessel is 99 GRT and, say, 350 ITC tonnage, the USCG will allow you to use the ITC tonnage (350) to satisfy the over 100 Ton requirement. The easiest way to do this is to find a company running crewboats overseas.

5

Gents,

Wanted to update anyone else pursuing the 3000 ITC endorsement with a 500 gt ticket, as of the new rule change, the above policy letter 07-00 is no longer valid. An additional 720 days aboard vessels 100gt and over, and 360 days serving as mate or master on same (I am a little fuzzy on the last point, but the upshot is requirements have changed dramatically.)

I just received the bad news from the NMC. I submitted my application on the 28th of May, four days late. I am so disgusted with myself now it is hard to concentrate:mad:.

Just wanted to pass it along, as well as solicit any advice as to what to try next.

Tarpaulin

6

Tarpaulin - Ouch, that is significant. You’d find it worthwhile to call Holly Chetta, a license consultant in the NO area. She is very knowledgeable, and could advise you of your options. Her rates are very reasonable. You can Google her contact information.

7

Look up NVIC 02-14 for grandfathering. You should be able to use the 07-00 “gimme” until 2019?

8

Thanks Water and Flyer69 for the excellent advice. I include the following for your entertainment.

I am waiting to hear back from Ms. Chetta. In the meantime, the very professional Chuck Kakuska from Sea K’s Maritime Licensing Service, whom I have dealt with in the past with great results, said “You should be able to utilize NVIC 02-14 to qualify. That was supposed to be the intent of that transition guidelines NVIC otherwise all existing sailors would be penalized because they didn’t get their paperwork in before March 24th.”

So I submitted the following to the NMC:

"I contend that my previous sea time requirements which you have on file at the NMC is sufficient due to the following:

Excerpt from NVIC NO. 02-14 states:

b. The changes to national OSV endorsements include: revisions to sea service
requirements for OSV endorsements to make those requirements comparable to other credentials; providing the option to complete an approved program for a Mate or Assistant Engineer to meet sea service requirements; and adding a progression from vessels less than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT to more than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT for chief mate and master. The following endorsements were amended accordingly:

  1. Master (OSV) [46 CFR 11.493]
  2. Chief Mate (OSV) [46 CFR 11.495]
  3. Mate (OSV) [46 CFR 11.497]
  4. Chief Engineer (OSV) [46 CFR 11.553]
  5. Assistant Engineer (OSV) [46 CFR 11.555]

c. Until March 24, 2019, mariners who began service or training before March 24, 2014, may qualify for the OSV endorsements listed in paragraph b above, by providing evidence of meeting the previous requirements for the endorsements.

Those requirements are outlined in NMC Policy Letter 07-00 Nov. 14, 2000, which states:

a. Master and mate licenses
(1) A mariner licensed as master or mate 1,600 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may
have the license endorsed as valid for service on vessels of not more than 3,000 GT. This
endorsement is not limited to service on OSVs. It is included here as a convenient reference
about endorsements that will allow such mariners to serve on OSVs measuring between 1,600 and 3,000 gross tons.
(2) A mariner licensed as master 500 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may have the
license endorsed as valid for service on OSVs of not more than 3,000 GT on near coastal, domestic voyages.
(3) A mariner licensed as mate 500 GRT on ocean or near coastal routes may have the
license endorsed as valid for service on OSVs of not more than 3,000 GT on near coastal,
domestic voyages.

According to the above policy letters, I held a 500GRT Masters, began service and training, and am referencing sea time accumulated prior to March 24, 2014, therefore I am eligible to receive the 3000 ITC domestic endorsement until March 24, 2019."

Here goes nothing. I’ll keep you updated.

9

Just a suggestion— Why don’t you let Chuck take over communications with the NMC? He is well known at NMC and speaks their language.

10

Thanks tugsailor. If this does not go my way with what I have so far, I will certainly do just that. Chuck is a pro and cheap at twice the price.

11

Looks like you are proceeding with good information. What Flyer and tugsailor said certainly makes sense.

May you have the satisfaction of having the NMC reverse itself.

12

[QUOTE=Flyer69;134923]Look up NVIC 02-14 for grandfathering. You should be able to use the 07-00 “gimme” until 2019?[/QUOTE]

If you began your sea service for the endorsement before March 24, 2014, you can qualify under the old regulations and policy until January 1, 2017 for STCW endorsements, and March 24, 2019 for national endorsements (licenses). The checklists on the NMC page are for those who are not grandfathered because they began their service after March 24, 2014. “Began” service means at least one day of the service you use to qualify before the endorsement was before March 24, 2014.

13

Mr Cavo. How would you format a letter for this as I will be submitting my app mid summer. If I run into the same issue I would like to be prepared. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mike

14

Beware that the grandfathering provision only allows for one transaction under the old system so use it wisely.

Also how the hell did you hear back from the CG so fast if you just applied on the 28th? I submitted on the March 27 and haven’t even cleared medical!

15

[QUOTE=KeysBum7229;135141]Beware that the grandfathering provision only allows for one transaction under the old system so use it wisely…[/QUOTE]

Really? Where did you learn that from? I don’t remember seeing that in NVIC 2–14.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Gofast;135130]Mr Cavo. How would you format a letter for this as I will be submitting my app mid summer. If I run into the same issue I would like to be prepared. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mike[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t matter, and e-mail is OK. Just use the magic words “I request a RECONSIDERATION of the decision that __________” Add as much of an argument and supporting documents as you want.

The same goes for any appeal if the result of the reconsideration is that they uphold the original decision. Just use the word “appeal”, e.g. “I appeal the NMC’s decision that ____”

The request for reconsideration goes to NMC. The appeal goes to CG HQ at either MMCPolicy@uscg.mil, or to:

U. S. Coast Guard
Office of Commercial Vessel Compliance (CG-CVC-4)
2703 Martin Luther King Jr. Ave. SE
STOP 7501
Washington, DC 20593-7501

16

[QUOTE=KeysBum7229;135141]Beware that the grandfathering provision only allows for one transaction under the old system so use it wisely.

Also how the hell did you hear back from the CG so fast if you just applied on the 28th? I submitted on the March 27 and haven’t even cleared medical![/QUOTE]

Perhaps they felt guilty about the delay adding my VSO endorsement which has been in processing for at least a month :slight_smile:

I too had heard about the one and done provision, but I think that had been attributed to remarks in conversation on the part of a USCG official rather than official policy. Mr. Cavo seems to agree.

17

I wonder what decision will be made for me. I requested permission to test for my 500 ton master with the 3000 ITC 52 days ago on February 20th. At that point I had everything I needed on all checklist’s for these upgrades fulfilled. Now I see these changes. I am currently awaiting Professional Quality Evaluation. These changes are a bit disconcerting to say the least!

18

[QUOTE=tarpaulin;135196]Perhaps they felt guilty about the delay adding my VSO endorsement which has been in processing for at least a month :slight_smile:

I too had heard about the one and done provision, but I think that had been attributed to remarks in conversation on the part of a USCG official rather than official policy. Mr. Cavo seems to agree.[/QUOTE]

The one time use provision was described in Adm J.A Servidio’s letter introducing the final rule. Paragraph 5, sentence 4. Here it is;

For a mariner’s STCW endorsements, the changes will be transitioned by January 1, 2017. For a mariner’s national endorsements the changes will be transitioned over a 5 year period, ending on March 23, 2019. During the transition period, a current mariner need only meet the requirements in effect before March 24, 2014, except for certain STCW training requirements. The opportunity to use the requirements in effect before March 24, 2014, [B]will only be available for one transaction during the STCW or national transition period[/B]. A mariner has the option to choose to be evaluated under the new requirements when those requirements are to the mariner’s benefit. The National Maritime Center is prepared to implement the new standards, and applying under the new rule will likely save you time. For those mariners holding endorsements no longer issued under the new rule, they may either keep their current endorsement or it can be transitioned to one of the consolidated endorsements. In some instances there may be additional training or examination for the consolidated endorsements.

I am not sure why it did not make it into the NVIC but I am not surprised by the contradictory information or the confusion that it has caused. Considering the way the CG has handled this rollout it seems to be par for the course. I guess someone will just have to apply a couple of times and see how the NMC reacts to them wanting to use the old system in multiple transactions.

19

[QUOTE=ShawnYoungblood;135210]I wonder what decision will be made for me. I requested permission to test for my 500 ton master with the 3000 ITC 52 days ago on February 20th. At that point I had everything I needed on all checklist’s for these upgrades fulfilled. Now I see these changes. I am currently awaiting Professional Quality Evaluation. These changes are a bit disconcerting to say the least![/QUOTE]

Then you should not have any problem being approved to take your tests. All of those new things started March 24, 2014 so if you have submitted before that then you “should” be all set. If your not sure you can always call the NMC and they will tell you either way.

Once you pass you will get your license within a week!!! took my tests, the next day the NMC had my test results, the next day i was approved and the new license was already in the mail!!!

20

[QUOTE=MassCap;135345]Then you should not have any problem being approved to take your tests. All of those new things started March 24, 2014 so if you have submitted before that then you “should” be all set. If your not sure you can always call the NMC and they will tell you either way.

Once you pass you will get your license within a week!!! took my tests, the next day the NMC had my test results, the next day i was approved and the new license was already in the mail!!![/QUOTE]

I hope You are right…I could call the NMC but the call center folks don’t always tend to give you the right info. Fingers crossed for now that I get good news within the next couple days!