Sea Time On Harbor Tug Without TOAR

I have a question for anyone who has had any experience submitting a sea time letter serving as a “mate” on a harbor tug without a TOAR.

I have a third mate unlimited but am looking to pick up some extra work/sea time during my time off working on local harbor tugs.

I’ll have well over the 50% thresholds concerning both NC route and tonnage limitations, so just looking to see if having a TOAR is a pre-requisite, or rather, an automatic disqualifier for sea time to be attributed to an upgrade to a 2M AGT.

I’ve read some threads and it appears Apprentice mate (steersman) time cannot be attributed from upgrading from 3/M to 2/M, so the discharge would have to be for mate.

Assuming the company signs you off as a Mate, is this largely considered mate time by the NMC

Do you have Mate of Towing on your license? Based on your asking about a TOAR it sounds like the answer is no. It is not clear how one would get time as Mate on a tugboat without the necessary license.

So are you asking a company to both let you serve in a position on their vessel for which you do not have the necessary license and to then write a letter to the Coast Guard telling them what they just did.

Curious to know how that goes

That sounds like what he’s asking, yes.

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Or working as a deckhand and wants it counted as “mate.” But it sounds more likely to want the company to write an inaccurate letter.

There’s a simple answer. Upgrading from 3rd Mate to 2nd mate requires service as officer in charge of a navigational watch, not “mate.” So if you are not in charge of the watch, it doesn’t count.

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I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was simply a lack of understanding of the inland world by someone with deep sea only “experience”.

Wow, I was not aware of that distinction. I can think of more than a few OSV guys who have upgraded but were not the OICNW.