I’m sure everyone knows about the existence of these requirements, but I have a question about the details.
The letter I just got from the NMC says:
“Per 46 CFR 11.305, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as Master or Chief Mate valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Managerial Skills course [B][I]and[/I][/B] a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course.”
and
“Per 46 CFR 11.309, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as OICNW valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course.”
Now I thought that Managerial Skills was superior to and could be substituted in lieu of Teamworking Skills, similar to VSO > VPDSD. [Also, I see no requirement in 46 CFR 11.305 for both courses.] MITAGS doesn’t list in their course description what their course approval is exactly, it could cover both, but shouldn’t the five day course make the one day course unnecessary?
Interesting wording in the CFR, but having just taken that 5 day course, it would be absolutely INSANE to sit in a classroom for another day “learning” leadership skills.
On a side note, PMI is sold out 2 months ahead, mitags 4 months and I hear star center is sold out until next year. That leaves one school in Tampa that can teach this thing. Unless a whole bunch of approved courses are certified by the USCG soon, there is going to be no way all mariners can fit this course in. I suspect an extension to complete as we get into next year.
I have called San Jacintho Maritime (281-974-2200) in Houston, Texas. They told me they were USCG approved. I did not see them on the USCG approved list.
I was told Delgado ((504) 671-5000) in New Orleans is offering the class & they are approved. Again did not see them as approved on the USCG approved list.
[QUOTE=The Rover;154593]I have called San Jacintho Maritime (281-974-2200) in Houston, Texas. They told me they were USCG approved. I did not see them on the USCG approved list.
I was told Delgado ((504) 671-5000) in New Orleans is offering the class & they are approved. Again did not see them as approved on the USCG approved list.[/QUOTE]
A lot of San Jacinto’s courses are actually taught by Mid-Atlantic Maritime under their approval. According to the San Jacinto website they are offering Leadership once a month for $1250.
Mid-Atlantic offers Leadership twice a month for $1250. Its USCG approved.
According to the Delgado website they are offering USCG approved Leadership as a four day $650 course. Next class is Feb 20-23rd.
That is a reasonable price. The $1200 the other schools charge is a ridiculous ripoff for this fluff course.
Personally, I’d hold off, unless you need it done now. Some of the courses waiting to be approved are a much better investment of time and money from what they have told me, assuming they’re ultimately approved. There are obviously quite a few in the works.
[QUOTE=z-drive;154601]Personally, I’d hold off, unless you need it done now. Some of the courses waiting to be approved are a much better investment of time and money from what they have told me, assuming they’re ultimately approved. There are obviously quite a few in the works.[/QUOTE]
That’s my thinking. A lot of schools should be jumping on this gravy train with a fluff course that requires no equipment.
We recently got an email over here that sometime in the near future we would start sending guys to these stcw gap classes. It sounds like its already hard getting in a class because of demand, imagine how it will be this time next year? Before you know it its going to be dec 2016.
For the engine guys, correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that only Star center is offering all three for engine? (erm, electronics, leadership)
Now correct me if I’m wrong please, but these courses are required to renew/upgrade, and not to sail right? I mean your “chairman Mao” book isn’t invalid by not having them if I read all the notices correctly. You just can’t renew without them. Right? If that’s the case, I’m with z-drive, just don’t wait to the last minute before renewal.
[QUOTE=Ctony;154614]We recently got an email over here that sometime in the near future we would start sending guys to these stcw gap classes. It sounds like its already hard getting in a class because of demand, imagine how it will be this time next year? Before you know it its going to be dec 2016.
For the engine guys, correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that only Star center is offering all three for engine? (erm, electronics, leadership)[/QUOTE]
The Calhoun MEBA school in Easton, MD offers the requisite courses.
[QUOTE=jbtam99;154620]Now correct me if I’m wrong please, but these courses are required to renew/upgrade, and not to sail right? I mean your “chairman Mao” book isn’t invalid by not having them if I read all the notices correctly. You just can’t renew without them. Right? If that’s the case, I’m with z-drive, just don’t wait to the last minute before renewal.[/QUOTE]
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think these are for stcw. Your national license will still be good. If we don’t have these by the end of 2016 our STCW is null in void (the first pages of the book with the roman numerals and such) and we can’t sail beyond the ‘boundary line.’
As we all know, most good jobs are contigent upon STCW endorsements.
I’m a bit slow. The more I have been reading about this stuff the worse my headache gets.
[QUOTE=The Rover;154593]I have called San Jacintho Maritime (281-974-2200) in Houston, Texas. They told me they were USCG approved. I did not see them on the USCG approved list.
I was told Delgado ((504) 671-5000) in New Orleans is offering the class & they are approved. Again did not see them as approved on the USCG approved list.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think their list has been updated in a while. One thing I noticed was ECO’s school is approved for all those classes. I bet guys working there are stoked for that.
[QUOTE=jbtam99;154620]Now correct me if I’m wrong please, but these courses are required to renew/upgrade, and not to sail right? I mean your “chairman Mao” book isn’t invalid by not having them if I read all the notices correctly. You just can’t renew without them. Right? If that’s the case, I’m with z-drive, just don’t wait to the last minute before renewal.[/QUOTE]
The leadership courses are required in order for you license to be valid after December 31, 2016 [as my quote from the USCG says]. Any MMC that expires after that date is printed with a note on the STCW section saying “Not Valid After December 31, 2016” and for ECDIS “Not Valid On ECDIS Equipped Vessels After December 31, 2016”. Without that leadership class you cannot sail past the Demarcation Line after the end of 2016…
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;154585]The letter I just got from the NMC says:
"Per 46 CFR 11.305, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as Master or Chief Mate valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Managerial Skills course [B][I]and[/I][/B] a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course."
and "Per 46 CFR 11.309, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as OICNW valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course."
Now I thought that Managerial Skills was superior to and could be substituted in lieu of Teamworking Skills, similar to VSO > VPDSD. [Also, I see no requirement in 46 CFR 11.305 for both courses.] MITAGS doesn’t list in their course description what their course approval is exactly, it could cover both, but shouldn’t the five day course make the one day course unnecessary?[/QUOTE]
You don’t need both. The management level course in Leadership and Teamworking Skills covers both. Also, if you did need the operational level requirement for Leadership and Teamworking Skills, it does not have to be a course. Look at the regs NMC cites, for the management level is says you have to complete approved training. But, for the operational level it says you have to demonstrate meeting the standard of competence. The difference is intentional, for the operational level you can meet the requirement by assessment, you do not have to take a course.
Updated - - -
[QUOTE=jbtam99;154638]Ok, thanks for the clarification. I’ll add that to my firefighting classes I have to renew now too. :/[/QUOTE]
You don’t need to renew advanced fire fighting until the first time you renew after December 31, 2016. You can extend having to take this by renewing early, just before 2017. But you need the Leadership course or assessments before January 1, 2017, or your STCW endorsement won’t be valid after that date.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;154698]You don’t need both. The management level course in Leadership and Teamworking Skills covers both. Also, if you did need the operational level requirement for Leadership and Teamworking Skills, it does not have to be a course. Look at the regs NMC cites, for the management level is says you have to complete approved training. But, for the operational level it says you have to demonstrate meeting the standard of competence. The difference is intentional, for the operational level you can meet the requirement by assessment, you do not have to take a course.[/QUOTE]
You might want to make sure the NMC understands that because I quoted the letter from them verbatim and they said I need [B]both[/B] courses for my management level endorsement to be valid.
The courses I’ve looked at, obviously PENDING approval of the course, won’t require 5 days in a classroom. Not to say I won’t require the same number of hours, if not more, but less than half the time on site and in class. I’d pay 2x the price to avoid listening to some blowhard tell sea stories in person all week.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;154585]I’m sure everyone knows about the existence of these requirements, but I have a question about the details.
The letter I just got from the NMC says:
“Per 46 CFR 11.305, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as Master or Chief Mate valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Managerial Skills course [B][I]and[/I][/B] a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course.”
and
“Per 46 CFR 11.309, to qualify for an STCW endorsement as OICNW valid for service after December 31, 2016, you will need to provide a certificate of completion from a Coast Guard approved Leadership and Teamworking Skills course.”
Now I thought that Managerial Skills was superior to and could be substituted in lieu of Teamworking Skills, similar to VSO > VPDSD. [Also, I see no requirement in 46 CFR 11.305 for both courses.] MITAGS doesn’t list in their course description what their course approval is exactly, it could cover both, but shouldn’t the five day course make the one day course unnecessary?[/QUOTE]
I renewed last year and My international endorsement was only valid until December 31st 2016. In order to remove this restriction I had to take the Management, communication and leadership course. I took mine at Quality Maritime in St. Petersburg, FL. I thought it was a really good course. After I received my certificate, I e-mailed it to REC. They forwarded it to NMC West Virginia and they removed the restriction. When I renew after 2016, I will have to take Advanced Firefighting and Basic Safety Training. Not too big a deal, considering I already have to take these every 5 years per company requirement.
Thanks for asking Capt. Phoenix and your reply Mr. Cavo. I’ve been looking around and waiting till thinks smooth out for any changes that need to be made to the course before getting serious about it. Same as for the 5yr STCW updates, take them all and send it in at one time.
[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;154749]When I renew after 2016, I will have to take Advanced Firefighting and Basic Safety Training. Not too big a deal, considering I already have to take these every 5 years per company requirement.[/QUOTE]
If you renew in 2016, you won’t need to renew Advanced FF, and BST can be renmewed as before, either 1 year of service in the past five, or take a refresher course. The revised renewal requirements for BST and the renewal requirements for Advanced FF, PSC and Fast Rescue Boat start on the first renewal after December 31, 2016.
If yuou renew before 12/31/2016, you won’t get a date limitation “not valid after…” for not having these renewal courses, your endorsements will be good for 5 uyears, subject to any limitation for ECDIS or nt having Leadership and Managerial/Teamwork Skills.
[QUOTE=z-drive;154716]The courses I’ve looked at, obviously PENDING approval of the course, won’t require 5 days in a classroom. Not to say I won’t require the same number of hours, if not more, but less than half the time on site and in class. I’d pay 2x the price to avoid listening to some blowhard tell sea stories in person all week.[/QUOTE]
Is the “pending approval” course at MITAGS? They called it pending approval as they were appealing the NMC’s denial of approval for being too short and not covering all the required material. Their appeal was denied. The course was approved, but only partially. It is only valid if you previously took MITAGS’ 40-hour Shiop Business/Maritime Law course. If you didn’t take that course, the “pending approval” course won’t meet the new requirement.
