I’ve been looking for an easy answer to this question and I can’t seem to find one. I searched the forums but I haven’t seen anything specific. Mostly what I’ve found in discussions concerns engineers. My question is holding a 1600 Ton Masters License do I need to take the 5 day Management Level HELM course AND the 1 day Leadership & Teamworking Operational Level Course or does the 5 day course cover the Operational and Management and in turn satisfy the requirement for the Dec 31, 2016 deadline? My license has II/1 and II/2. Looking at the MPT website I see that the Leadership and Teamworking course is an extension of BRM but I’m not sure if the HELM is just a longer “management level” version of the the one day course or something totally different… Have any of you guys already taken the course(s)? Can you shed some light on this?
My understanding is you just need the leadership and managerial skills course.
From the Uscg:
***ADDED 05/27/15***) I have both a Master 3,000 ton endorsement and a 3rd Mate OICNW endorsement. I was informed by the NMC that for my STCW to stay valid after Dec 2016, I would have to complete two courses: Leadership and Managerial skills, and Leadership and Teamworking Skills. Investigating further, I have read that if an individual takes the Leadership and Managerial skills course, that this satisfies the Leadership and Teamworking Skills STCW requirement for OINCW. Is this true?
You are correct. If you are renewing your endorsements and have successfully completed the Leadership and Managerial Skills course, you do not have to meet the standard of competence for Leadership and Teamworking skills.
Thank you!
This is from USCG:
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/stcw_gapclosing_bulletin.pdf
Just did leadership and managerial skills (5 day). From what I gathered it is for Masters and Chiefs.
Leadership and Teamworking (1 Day) is for Mates and assistant engineers. Not positive if this is correct but this is my company’s interpretation of it.
Leadership and Mangerial Skills is for management level officers. Leadership and Teamworking is for the junior officers. Not sure where a company’s interpretation would enter into it, it would be entirely the Coast Guard’s interpretation, and more to the point, their interpretation of who a management level officer is.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;165438]Leadership and Mangerial Skills is for management level officers. Leadership and Teamworking is for the junior officers. Not sure where a company’s interpretation would enter into it, it would be entirely the Coast Guard’s interpretation, and more to the point, their interpretation of who a management level officer is.[/QUOTE]
Right so anyone having a masters or chiefs ticket needs the five day class, mates and assistants need the one day?
My company’s interpretation entered it when we needed someone to spell it out for us for what classes we needed to take. STCW shit gives me a headache.
[QUOTE=Ctony;165440]Right so anyone having a masters or chiefs ticket needs the five day class, mates and assistants need the one day?
My company’s interpretation entered it when we needed someone to spell it out for us for what classes we needed to take. STCW shit gives me a headache.[/QUOTE]
Except “management level” is Masters, Chief mates, Chief engineers, and First Assistant engineers…
Thus it is incorrect to say “Masters and chiefs” need one and “mates and assistants” need the other.
It goes by whatever STCW code you have on your license… Not so much your national license… II/2, 11/3, etc…
Management Level (Master, Chief Mate - II/2, II/3)
• Leadership and Managerial Skills
• ECDIS (To be valid on vessels equipped with ECDIS)
Management Level (Chief Engineer, Second Engineer Officer - III/2, III/3)
• Engine Resource Management (ERM) if not completed at the operational level
• Leadership and Managerial Skills
• Management of Electrical and Electronic Control Equipment
Operational Level (OICNW - II/1, II/3)
• Leadership and Teamwork Skills
• ECDIS (To be valid on vessels equipped with ECDIS)
Operational Level (OICEW - III/1) • ERM
• Leadership and Teamwork Skills
Hi TugNtow,
Check out the guidance from MITAGS-PMI that I’ve attached. The short answer is that you need only the 5 day class.
The 5 day LMS class covers all the material in the i day LTS class, and therefore alot of folks are just opting to take LMS and be done with it.
I spoke with MPT today and they said that right now with their approval from the CG I would have to take both courses. If I wait about two months they will have their 5 day management course approved to supersede the operational level course. My STCW endorsement has I/1, II/2, II/3, II/4, II/5, VI/1, VI/2,VI/3, VI/4, and VI/6. She seemed a little confused about why my license didn’t have a mate endorsement for STCW. It has Master 1600 NC, Master not valid on vessels more than 3000GT, Master of Towing, OICNW of Uninspected Towing Vessels, and OICNW of not more than 3000GT. I admit the fact that it says master of not more than 3000GT on one line and OICNW of 3000GT on another is confusing. If you are master 3000 wouldn’t it go without saying that you are the Officer in charge of the watch and that you could sail as mate? I’ve never worked OSV’s so the terminology isn’t something we use on tugs. Anyone want to explain that? I’ve spent enough time in the CFRs lately to get the license I don’t have it in me at the moment to search for an answer in them for this:)
From what I understand foreign port state control officers want to see everything listed, no matter if we consider it common sense. There were issues with this when the red book first came out and the coast guard want putting every code in there. Port state control would say “you don’t have advanced fire firefighting” , but the NMC didn’t list it because it was a requirement for the license, so if you have a license you had to have it. Now they list every rating you have, regardless of it is an inferior rating to something else.
[QUOTE=TugNtow;165548]I spoke with MPT today and they said that right now with their approval from the CG I would have to take both courses. If I wait about two months they will have their 5 day management course approved to supersede the operational level course. My STCW endorsement has I/1, II/2, II/3, II/4, II/5, VI/1, VI/2,VI/3, VI/4, and VI/6. She seemed a little confused about why my license didn’t have a mate endorsement for STCW. It has Master 1600 NC, Master not valid on vessels more than 3000GT, Master of Towing, OICNW of Uninspected Towing Vessels, and OICNW of not more than 3000GT. I admit the fact that it says master of not more than 3000GT on one line and OICNW of 3000GT on another is confusing. If you are master 3000 wouldn’t it go without saying that you are the Officer in charge of the watch and that you could sail as mate? I’ve never worked OSV’s so the terminology isn’t something we use on tugs. Anyone want to explain that? I’ve spent enough time in the CFRs lately to get the license I don’t have it in me at the moment to search for an answer in them for this:)[/QUOTE]
The approval of the course was not consistent with policy. As others have noted, if you meet the management level requirement for Leadership and Managerial Skills, you will meet the operational level requirement even if it was not specifically stated in the course approval. It should not be necessary to wait until the course approval is amended.