National Crossover From 1600T Mate NC to OICNW?

I’ll preface my question by saying that I’ve asked the NMC about this and gotten the ‘refer to the checklist’ answer and have searched this site pretty exhaustively without finding anything clear.

I’m about to apply for a 1600 Mate NC license and am wondering about my eligibility for OICNW. My confusion lies with the sea-time. I’ve got a little over the required 2 years for the domestic license and have completed all of the ‘Other Requirements’, with the exception of GMDSS and ECDIS, that are listed on the old (grandfathered) checklist. When I look at the new, separate checklist for OICNW I see 3 years of sea time is required to obtain that endorsement. Then at the bottom of said new checklist I see a table listing National Crossover to STCW Endorsement. In this table it states there is no additional sea service required to obtain OICNW when one possesses 1600 Mate NC or O.

Am am I able to apply for and receive the OICNW endorsement at the same time I apply for the 1600 mate NC with just the 2 years required for the national license?

I don’t know if I’m telling you right or not but will tell you what I think. :slight_smile: (Rule changes always bring speculation and various interpretations.)

Get the assessment book. Complete it and send it in when you request to test. On the new form, I can’t remember the exact wording, but it asks if you want to be evaluated under the old or new rules. circle old. I would also take your GMDS class for two reasons. I don’t know of a 1600t boat without it and there are quite a few question on the test from it. 720 eight hr days required for 1600 mate.

If I’m wrong I’m sure the kind folks on here will let me and you know but I’m willing to help as much as I can. Problem is most of the time you can never tell someone’s position by what they posted, there are more things that are in play.

Can’t believe NMC did the Refer to the checklist thing. They have always answered my questions and they have been correct and have always been kind. The REC in Mandeville has even filled out a blank form for me on what to check and what to write in the request box.

Sorry, I should have added that I’ve completed the assessments.

Seeing nobody is willing to help you a little, probably to busy on another thread throwing someone off a cliff. LOL!!!

The search option can be tricky on these forums. I searched and searched for training mate questions and couldn’t find what I was looking for. There is a guy on here whose screen name is jdcavo. type his name in username and search through his posts. What he says is pretty much golden.

Now for some more advice. Take the bull by the horns yourself. As much as it is a pain in the arse, call the local REC or head to it and get the answer you are looking for. I’ve made a couple of trips to my local REC which is a 2 1/2 trip one way from my house. Reason being is I just can’t understand what people are saying if I don’t understand what we are talking about to begin with. Meaning I don’t use words that is used that they understand in there work. Example is a doctor will come up with a 15 letter word for something and can explain to me all day long about it and I will have no clue what he is talking about over the phone. I can go in and see them and understand I have a sore throat.

Again, I’m speaking from the REC in Mandeville but they have always been helpful. We have 6 officers on our boat. All six went about getting there lic. in a different manner sorta. Example, one is retired USN, one came up from a cook, one came up from fishing, one worked on rigs in a past life, one came up from the deck, one came from tug boats. In all situations they may have done the same classes (Radar, BRM, etc… etc…) Sea time counted and test they can sit for may have been all different. ( IE… one started out as 500t mate, one 1600t mate, one 3rd mate one went from 200t master to 1600t master or whatever. ) That is the reason for my statement " THERE ARE MORE THINGS IN PLAY"

Now you can play this two ways. Send your package in and hope that everything is ok and it is sent up the chain for evaluation. They find something and give you 90 days to send it to them. Or spend a day of your off time and go to the REC and make sure you have your ducks more in a row. So many times I have seen OS’s try to get into a AB class from company because it’s free instead of paying for the class. They are losing money hand over fist because of this. Spend the $800 and get it over with and get your pay raise. Your still doing the same job for less money by waiting on that free class. 2 weeks of work as a AB will pay for the class. In the mean time you are waiting 3 months for that FREE class. In the mean time you could have made about 5K more if you would have just paid for the class yourself. I hear the I don’t have the money excuse all the time from them even though they are driving a new car. Heck, get a sign. loan for 1k and pay it off with your pay raise, don’t spend it on more material things.

So to give you a short answer it sounds like you have everything you need. Just get your paperwork correct and send it in and get evaluated. Take what you have to an REC and have them look over it. If everything is there pack it up and send it in that day. Your stress will be less because someone that works with these things has looked over your package and given you a thumbs up. Not one of us knows your background and haven’t seen your paperwork. Here is a problem with your post though. You say you have 2 years sea time but never said on what. So my response is all based on ASSUMING that it is on a boat that is sailing NC and is over 200t. If it is on a tug up in the GL then most likely everything I have posted is useless.

Nothing wrong with asking questions don’t get me wrong. Sometimes it’s just hard to give correct answers when it’s not in front of you. The old saying is always prevalent " More then one way to skin a cat" when it comes to lic.

I was where you are just two years ago and haven’t forgotten how I was treated when trying to move up. I was only looking for guidance or someone to point me in the direction I needed to head. Some helped, some would just through down a CFR and say look it up. What has worked the best for me is, know what and where I want to head and see if it is possible for me to do it. I’ve jumped through more hoops then I’ve had to but I covered all my bases doing it even if it did take more of my free time then needed.

Just one more thing that you will find out. Help and advice will come out of the wood works from all those folks you asked AFTER you get your lic. In other words, the folks that wouldn’t help you will be first is line telling you how the easiest and fastest way you should have done it.

Hope you understand what I’m trying to say.

Good luck and you can always PM me if you have questions and I’ll try to answer from my experiences.

Again, here is the way I see it. You are talking about a 40K year pay raise. To me, that’s just me, it’s easier to spend $200 and talk to someone face to face and feel comfortable in my package then to stress over it and even worse it be wrong. I actually paid someone to do my 1st two packages to the USCG. I’ve done it myself for my last 2. Still learning on that. I will post about the latest debacle after I get it cleared up. I took bad advice and found out different after calling NMC. Damn it would have saved me so much time to pick up that phone and $150 to boot.

Table 1 to 11.309(e) explains the crossover. If you have a national endorsement for mate less than 1600 ocean/nc you qualify for the oicnw with no additional time. That table can be found in the STCW OICNW checklist. Not official info here but that’s my take on it.

The part of the table in 11.309(e) that has been confusing me is that with the heading Training Required By This Section. In the CFRs, it instructs to Complete any items in paragraph (a)(4) of this section not previously satisfied. On the checklist it instructs to Complete any items in paragraph (a)(3) of this section not previously satisfied and if sea service started after March 24, 2014. It appears they made a typo there putting (a)(3) and not (a)(4). The discrepancy that concerns me is the inclusion of the ‘after March 24, 2014’ wording on the checklist and not the CFR.

Operating under the assumption that the ‘sea service starting after March 24, 2014’ is supposed to be there, I’ll be able to apply simultaneously for the national license and the OICNW endorsement without taking the full battery of STCW courses now required, just those on the old checklist. Does this sound right? I’ll try this route and report back.

AB Murph, thanks for the input. It’s not been a super easy road, as my company has so far done nothing to help me obtain this license, but I’m doing what I can, when I can and I’ll get there soon. Also, what is this $40,000 raise you speak of? Where I’m at, if I move from AB to 2/M I’ll barely be making any more money.

[QUOTE=Gimli;135086]The part of the table in 11.309(e) that has been confusing me is that with the heading Training Required By This Section. In the CFRs, it instructs to Complete any items in paragraph (a)(4) of this section not previously satisfied. On the checklist it instructs to Complete any items in paragraph (a)(3) of this section not previously satisfied and if sea service started after March 24, 2014. It appears they made a typo there putting (a)(3) and not (a)(4). The discrepancy that concerns me is the inclusion of the ‘after March 24, 2014’ wording on the checklist and not the CFR.

Operating under the assumption that the ‘sea service starting after March 24, 2014’ is supposed to be there, I’ll be able to apply simultaneously for the national license and the OICNW endorsement without taking the full battery of STCW courses now required, just those on the old checklist. Does this sound right? I’ll try this route and report back.

AB Murph, thanks for the input. It’s not been a super easy road, as my company has so far done nothing to help me obtain this license, but I’m doing what I can, when I can and I’ll get there soon. Also, what is this $40,000 raise you speak of? Where I’m at, if I move from AB to 2/M I’ll barely be making any more money.[/QUOTE]

The sea service after March 24, 2014 is supposed to be there. But if you have sea service that started before that date you can, until January 1, 2017, qualify under the old rules. The checklists on the NMC are for the new regulations, that won’t apply if you have the service before 3/24/2014.

Since you have the service before 3/24/2014, here’s what you need to look at for OICNW:
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/regulations/policy/11-07.pdf

Thank you jdcavo, for responding. I haven’t, in any of my many readings of PL 11-07, found any mention of sea service required. I take this to mean that as long as I meet the requirements for the domestic license and have completed the assessments and training listed in 11-07, I should be able to obtain both license and STCW endorsement at the same time.

It’s looking more and more like I asked a dumb question, so I appreciate your willingness to help clarify in the face of that.

[QUOTE=Gimli;135086]
AB Murph, thanks for the input. It’s not been a super easy road, as my company has so far done nothing to help me obtain this license, but I’m doing what I can, when I can and I’ll get there soon. Also, what is this $40,000 raise you speak of? Where I’m at, if I move from AB to 2/M I’ll barely be making any more money.[/QUOTE]

That’s my company sorry. Most of the other big companies down on the bayou, the AB makes what a 3rd mate makes at our company (QMEDS more). For us it is a 40K raise though. Get your 1600t master and its another 40K raise. I’m happy where I’m at though. I don’t money jump.

Mr Cavo,

I am a little confused and was wondering if you could help me out on a question I have. I currently hold a 1600 ton mate and in August of 2013 I had to leave the industry with 9 sea days left to make me eligible for my 3rd mate upgrade. I Am now back in the industry and looking to upgrade to 3rd but my 9 days that I needed are after the March 2014 date. I am wondering if those days will not count towards the old standard or if I am starting over because I did not make enough sea time when needed. Also do not see on the checklist that a mate 1600 nc does not have to retest for that license, does that still hold true?

Thank you very much,
Mike

They will count. You started your sea time towards yor next upgrade before 24 march.

I’m not Mr. Cavo but that is the way it is posted.

[QUOTE=MIKEZ76SP;138655]Mr Cavo,

I am a little confused and was wondering if you could help me out on a question I have. I currently hold a 1600 ton mate and in August of 2013 I had to leave the industry with 9 sea days left to make me eligible for my 3rd mate upgrade. I Am now back in the industry and looking to upgrade to 3rd but my 9 days that I needed are after the March 2014 date. I am wondering if those days will not count towards the old standard or if I am starting over because I did not make enough sea time when needed. Also do not see on the checklist that a mate 1600 nc does not have to retest for that license, does that still hold true?

Thank you very much,
Mike[/QUOTE]

The only restriction on sea time that applies is the recency requirement, when you re-apply, at least 90 days of the total has to have been ion the past 3 years. There should be no test for 3rds Mate, as loing as you tested for Mate 1600 after 2/1/2002.

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[QUOTE=AB Murph;138659]They will count. You started your sea time towards yor next upgrade before 24 march.

I’m not Mr. Cavo but that is the way it is posted.[/QUOTE]

That would be correct for grandfathering, it’s when you got the first day of service to qualify, not when you got the last. But, in his case it’s not relevant, assuming that he already has an OICNW endorsement. If so, this upgrade is not for STCW, he already has the endorsement., It’s just for the license and for 3rd Mate, the only significant changes were lowering the minimum tonnage for qualifying sea time to 100 GRT and minimal changes to the exams. Since he’s asking about time he already has, and doesn’t have to take an exam, neither of these apply to him.