OK! Finally received my letter from NMC requesting additional data. (The letter is quoted below).<div>Here’s what I need your help with:</div><br><div>1. Will an extension to the 90 days it says I have to respond be granted based on my military duties limiting the speed of which I can complete courses, etc…</div><div>2. Since I’m a Naval Academy graduate, do I need surface ship sea time or any courses for the THIRD MATE LICENSE (non STCW)? (My read of the regs is no-- I just need to show proof of my submarine Surface Officer of the Deck qualifications)</div><div>3. Do I need “recent sea service on surface vessels” if I am seeking Third Mate? (My original application was for Chief Mate, but I definitely don’t have the sea time and other requirements for that)</div><div>4. I read Policy Memo 01-02 and I’m confused. It specifically states that it does not apply to persons who graduate from a formal training program/maritime academy. Do I need to do the OICNW Operational if I’m applying for THIRD MATE based on Naval Academy Grad/Qualified OOD? </div><div>4a. If I do need OICNW items, then: I have recently done all of the OICNW (operational and management) items. Can my non-civilian-licensed Navy commanding officer sign my forms? Is it OK if we’re taking credit for what I did over the past 2 years on the ship (but haven’t documented until now since I didn’t know then that I’d need to be filling out the OICNW forms!)</div><div>5. Since my application was for Chief Mate but I realize now that I (think) I meet requirements for Third Mate, how do I communicate the request for consideration for that license instead?</div><div>6. FInally, this is what I think I need to turn in and complete; please let me know if you agree:</div><br><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style="white-space:pre] </span>- Request to modify license application for Third Mate<br></div><div> - Proof of Naval Academy graduation (although it’s already in my package on Navy command letterhead!!)</div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style="white-space:pre] </span>- Proof of OOD qualification (same-- it’s already in my package!)<br></div><div> - Either a note stating that 01-02 OICNW (operational) is N/A since I am a Naval Academy Grad/OOD - OR - OICNW operational level practical assessment forms from policy letter 01-02</div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style="white-space:pre] </span>- Bridge Resource Management Course<br></div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style="white-space:pre] </span>- Basic Safety Training<br></div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style="white-space:pre] </span>- Basic and Advance Firefighting<br></div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style=“white-space:pre] </span>- Medical care provider<br></div><div><span class=“Apple-tab-span” style=“white-space:pre] </span>- Lifeboatman<br></div><br><div>Thanks,</div><div>Subguy</div><br><br><div>”… you application is pending and in need of additional supporting documentation and information…</div><div>This pending status is valid for 90 days… Extension requests will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis…</div><br><div>License:</div><div>Please provide the NMC with your OOD/JOOD letters as well as any documents providing proof of graduation from the Naval Academy. If you have any recent sea service on surface vessels please also provide this documentation. Once these items are submitted we can further evaluate your current request for a license [I REQUESTED CHIEF MATE BUT KNOW I WAS WRONG NOW], however we may need to to ask for additional documentation of sea service once the evaluation of the above items have been reviewed.</div><br><div>STCW:</div><div>-Chief Mate requirements for STCW requires mariners to complete OICNW on a Management level and Operational level. Please refer to Polic Letter 04-02 for complete details.***</div><div>- Third Mate requirements for STCW requires mariners to complete OICNM [sic] on a Operational Level. Please refer to policy letter 01-02 for complete details. ***</div><div>-Master 1600 Oceans requirements for STCW requires you to have complete RFPNW. Please see policy letter 14-02 for complete details. </div><br><div> Please note that all of the above licenses require mariner to have completed the following list of courses: Bridge Resource Management, Basic Safety Training, Basic and Advanced Firefighting, Medical Care provider, and Lifeboatman (Radar, GMDSS, and ARPA are optional courses for the STCW).”</div><br>
SubGuy,<br> My best advice to you is call your evaluator at NMC. The name should be on your letter. If not just call the number on the letter head and they can look it up in the computer. You should be dealing with one of the military specialists and they will know exactly what you as a Navy grad need to do and can adjust based on the documentation you can provide. My own experience got much easier once it made it to the level you are now at. I recommend you go for the highest level they will allow, but also get the 1600ton master. You can do both on the same set of exams. Good luck!<br>Doc
Called NMC. My evaluator was great. She confirmed:<br><br>
<DIV>1. Extension is possible. Just contact them with details on what extra time is needed and why and they’ll work with me.<br>2. 3rd Mate is what I’m eligible for since I’m an academy grad. The lack of surface ship time precludes anything beyond that.<br>3. No additional surface time needed for 3rd mate.<br>4. While I could get a license without the STCW items, I’d be limited and she recommends getting an unlimited license to prevent problems in the future when I want to convert.<br>5. OICNW items not required for 3rd mate, but will be when I want to upgrade to “management level” (CM/Master)<br>6. So, here’s what I owe them: <br></DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span><br> - Proof of Naval Academy graduation (although it’s already in my package on Navy command letterhead!!)</DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span>- Proof of OOD qualification (same-- it’s already in my package!)<br></DIV>
<DIV> Bridge Resource Management Course<br></DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span>- Basic Safety Training<br></DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span>- Basic and Advance Firefighting<br></DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span>- Medical care provider<br></DIV>
<DIV><span class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre] </span>- Lifeboatman<br></DIV>
It sounds like they got it right, except for two points: you don’t need Medical Care Provider as you are being “grandfathered” to STCW on the basis of service and traiing that began before 8/1/98. You should need an STCW (Deck) Refresher course.<br><br>Approved program as used in Policy Letter is a program approved for STCW OICNW. The Naval Academy still qualifiesd for 3rd Mate (no STCW) but it is not an approved program as it is used in STCW.<br><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training & Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</A>
<P>SubGuy,<br> When you say “she” as your evaluator, is it Ms. Graves? If so you are in luck because she is without a doubt the most helpfull person I found in the system. She is awesome! Nothing against the other folks up there but she went out of her way to help me. I can’t sing her praises enough.</P>
<P>Doc</P>
Not sure-- evaluator is "Abby: and she is great.
Subguy,
I’m an academy guy looking at 3rd mate as well. I was wondering how this all worked out for you. I was neither a surface nor sub guy so my sea time is primarily small boats, YP’s and summer cruises. Did you need 90 days of recent sea time? How did you get your proof of OOD qualification? Any gouge on this is much appreciated!
[QUOTE=SubGuy;3357]OK! *Finally received my letter from NMC requesting additional data. *(The letter is quoted below).Here’s what I need your help with:
- *Will an extension to the 90 days it says I have to respond be granted based on my military duties limiting the speed of which I can complete courses, etc…
- Since I’m a Naval Academy graduate, do I need surface ship sea time or any courses for the THIRD MATE LICENSE (non STCW)? (My read of the regs is no-- I just need to show proof of my submarine Surface Officer of the Deck qualifications)
- *Do I need “recent sea service on surface vessels” if I am seeking Third Mate? (My original application was for Chief Mate, but I definitely don’t have the sea time and other requirements for that)
- I read Policy Memo 01-02 and I’m confused. *It specifically states that it does not apply to persons who graduate from a formal training program/maritime academy. *Do I need to do the OICNW Operational if I’m applying for THIRD MATE based on Naval Academy Grad/Qualified OOD? **
4a. *If I do need OICNW items, then: *I have recently done all of the OICNW (operational and management) items. *Can my non-civilian-licensed Navy commanding officer sign my forms? *Is it OK if we’re taking credit for what I did over the past 2 years on the ship (but haven’t documented until now since I didn’t know then that I’d need to be filling out the OICNW forms!) - Since my application was for Chief Mate but I realize now that I (think) I meet requirements for Third Mate, how do I communicate the request for consideration for that license instead?
- FInally, this is what I think I need to turn in and complete; please let me know if you agree:
re] - Request to modify license application for Third Mate
** * * *- Proof of Naval Academy graduation (although it’s already in my package on Navy command letterhead!!)
re] - Proof of OOD qualification (same-- it’s already in my package!)
** * * *- Either a note stating that 01-02 OICNW (operational) is N/A since I am a Naval Academy Grad/OOD *- OR - OICNW operational level practical assessment forms from policy letter 01-02
re] - Bridge Resource Management Course
re] - Basic Safety Training
re] - Basic and Advance Firefighting
re] - Medical care provider
re] - Lifeboatman
Thanks,
Subguy
"… you application is pending and in need of additional supporting documentation and information…
This pending status is valid for 90 days… Extension requests will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis…
License:
Please provide the NMC with your OOD/JOOD letters as well as any documents providing proof of graduation from the Naval Academy. If you have any recent sea service on surface vessels please also provide this documentation. Once these items are submitted we can further evaluate your current request for a license [I REQUESTED CHIEF MATE BUT KNOW I WAS WRONG NOW], however we may need to to ask for additional documentation of sea service once the evaluation of the above items have been reviewed.
STCW:
-Chief Mate requirements for STCW requires mariners to complete OICNW on a Management level and Operational level. Please refer to Polic Letter 04-02 for complete details.***
- Third Mate requirements for STCW requires mariners to complete OICNM [sic] on a Operational Level. Please refer to policy letter 01-02 for complete details. ***
-Master 1600 Oceans requirements for STCW requires you to have complete RFPNW. Please see policy letter 14-02 for complete details. ***
*** Please note that all of the above licenses require mariner to have completed the following list of courses: Bridge Resource Management, Basic Safety Training, Basic and Advanced Firefighting, Medical Care provider, and Lifeboatman (Radar, GMDSS, and ARPA are optional courses for the STCW)."
[/QUOTE]
Donkey,
I got my MMD and left it at that for now. I’m going to command next year; my plan is, after 12 months, to go to MITAGS, MSC East and/or other schools, bang out the STCW-95 requirements, and apply for Chief Engineer and Master licenses based on experience.
Of course this is predicated on USCG not changing the rules to eliminate the allowance for transferring credit.
Also, note that for USNA to count to get you straight to 3rd Mate, you have to have qualified OOD. It sounds like you weren’t a SWO, so you’re probably out of luck.
My advice would be to try to get on with Military Sealift Command or another outfit and do some time as an AB to build time; you may also get lucky and they’ll pay for some schools.
Good luck!
Review the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) on implementing STCW. Specifically, look at what the PROPOSED nrulemaking would require with regard to whether you must HOLD STCW at the operational level (Mate 500/1600/3rd Mate/2nd MAte) to qualify for the Management level (chief Mate/Master). It may influence your plans. I appoilgize if this is vague, federal law restricts what I can say about proposed regulations and where I can say it.
As long as we are talking about evaluators i had Eileen Dillon and she did a super job for me, she made things move along quickly.