Naval Officer Transitioning to Civilian Maritime Career Has Question for Chief Cavo

Professional Mariner Forum
1

My first post, hopefully of many…

As soon as I receive my Sea Service Transcripts and History of Assignments I will be submitting my Application (CG 719 B) to NMC to get my MMC (wow all these acronyms, I feel like I’m back in the Navy…) I already have my passport, TWIC, physical, etc.

Anyway, my two questions are;

  1. What qualifications/rating do you think I’ll be granted by NMC?
  2. What will I have to accomplish to test for 3rd Mate?

It is my goal to start wherever I have to (OS, AB ??) for as long as I have to and work my up to 3rd mate.

I Qualified as Surface Warfare Officer, Officer of the Deck Underway on a Crusier (9,000 tons), Damage Control Locker Leader, Helicopter Control Officer, Lifeboat Officer, etc. I have over 1,000 days of Sea Service in the Indian Ocean, Persian Gulf, Sea of Japan, Northern Pacific, etc. etc… Last sea service 1991. Got out of reserves in 1993.

If I do not qualify as AB I will attend SIU’s Veteran program for 7 weeks.

Any input from anyone appreciated. Thanks!

2

IMHO, you will need some STCW schools and you’ll need 90 days of recency (sea time) before you can test for 3rd mate, plus there will be all the schools associated with 3rd mate. (Damn I’m glad I did this in the 90’s)

3

Fellow Naval Officer here. I just recently started down the road you’re on so I feel your pain! You likely meet all of the requirements for non-STCW AB and Wiper just by virture of your sea time (plus completing the application, urinalysis, medical, etc…)

  1. Welcome to gCaptain. THE BEST resource for navigating the licensing structure.
  2. You need to decide if you want to go DECK (which it sounds like you do) or ENGINEERING.
  3. If you are a served CO, then you can apply to sit for Unlimited Master after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  4. If you are a USMMA or USNA grad, and you have qualified OOD, you can sit for 3rd Mate after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  5. If you don’t meet one of the above Deck license paths but have a enough sea-time (which you likely do if you’re a SWO or submariner) then you’ll be eligible to sit for the 3rd mate AFTER meeting the OICNW practical-factor requirements. Lots of skills you’ll need to demonstrate AT SEA or in a TRAINER/SCHOOL (approved, of course!)
  6. If you are a served CHENG, then you can sit for Chief Engineer unlimited after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  7. STCW
    a. No way around it-- you have to do it.
    b. Minimum is basic and advanced firefighting, DC, lifeboat, medical provider, and GMDSS. There may be more. (That’s what I’m still working on).
    c. The standard uniformed-Navy’s courses, with VERY few exceptions, don’t meet any of the requirements.
    d. The Military Sealift Command schools at San Diego and Freehold, NJ * DO * meet all the requirements and you can try to get “space-a” seats at those schools (no-cost TAD) if you’re still on active duty.
    e. Otherwise, best bet is to do a course via one of the union schools (like you’ve found) or somewhere else. CAUTION: MAKE SURE THE SCHOOL YOU TAKE IS ACCREDITED AND GETS YOU THE GRAD CERT THAT YOU NEED.

Hope this helps!

4

[quote=SubGuy;12305]Fellow Naval Officer here. I just recently started down the road you’re on so I feel your pain! You likely meet all of the requirements for non-STCW AB and Wiper just by virture of your sea time (plus completing the application, urinalysis, medical, etc…)

  1. Welcome to gCaptain. THE BEST resource for navigating the licensing structure.
  2. You need to decide if you want to go DECK (which it sounds like you do) or ENGINEERING.
  3. If you are a served CO, then you can apply to sit for Unlimited Master after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  4. If you are a USMMA or USNA grad, and you have qualified OOD, you can sit for 3rd Mate after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  5. If you don’t meet one of the above Deck license paths but have a enough sea-time (which you likely do if you’re a SWO or submariner) then you’ll be eligible to sit for the 3rd mate AFTER meeting the OICNW practical-factor requirements. Lots of skills you’ll need to demonstrate AT SEA or in a TRAINER/SCHOOL (approved, of course!)
  6. If you are a served CHENG, then you can sit for Chief Engineer unlimited after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  7. STCW
    a. No way around it-- you have to do it.
    b. Minimum is basic and advanced firefighting, DC, lifeboat, medical provider, and GMDSS. There may be more. (That’s what I’m still working on).
    c. The standard uniformed-Navy’s courses, with VERY few exceptions, don’t meet any of the requirements.
    d. The Military Sealift Command schools at San Diego and Freehold, NJ * DO * meet all the requirements and you can try to get “space-a” seats at those schools (no-cost TAD) if you’re still on active duty.
    e. Otherwise, best bet is to do a course via one of the union schools (like you’ve found) or somewhere else. CAUTION: MAKE SURE THE SCHOOL YOU TAKE IS ACCREDITED AND GETS YOU THE GRAD CERT THAT YOU NEED.

Hope this helps![/quote]

I remember when Subguy, first came on gcaptain and asked similar questions…That’s what makes this forum so special and come full circle when a member can aquire info, then in turn, pass it along like that, well done sir !

5

Cliff,

Welcome aboard…when you can, make sure and stop by the Navy service thread…

For your reading enjoyment,…:smiley: I’ve included the following links…The CFR’s are as much fun as reading Capt’s night orders on a mid watch in the I.O…And the Marine Safety Manual…well…I actually find them interesting but don’t tell anybody…Save them both as they will help show you the way…
Part 10 of the CFR’s and in the MSM, chapter 2 will help…

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_02/46cfrv1_02.html

[U]http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf[/U]

6

[quote=Shellback;12321]Cliff,

Welcome aboard…when you can, make sure and stop by the Navy service thread…

For your reading enjoyment,…:smiley: I’ve included the following links…The CFR’s are as much fun as reading Capt’s night orders on a mid watch in the I.O…And the Marine Safety Manual…well…I actually find them interesting but don’t tell anybody…Save them both as they will help show you the way…
Part 10 of the CFR’s and in the MSM, chapter 2 will help…

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_02/46cfrv1_02.html

[U]http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf[/U][/quote]

Wow, I checked out the references you provided .Very informative, thank you! Complex and a bit confusing but informative nevertheless. Also, encouraging. It seems like my semi-ancient sea service will count for more then I first thought. :slight_smile:

Getting back to my original two questions in the beginning of the thread what do you think? Will I be considered AB Unlimited right out of the gate or ?? What will I have to do besides recency to test for 3rd Mate?

Cliff

7

[quote=SubGuy;12305]Fellow Naval Officer here. I just recently started down the road you’re on so I feel your pain! You likely meet all of the requirements for non-STCW AB and Wiper just by virture of your sea time (plus completing the application, urinalysis, medical, etc…)

  1. Welcome to gCaptain. THE BEST resource for navigating the licensing structure.
  2. You need to decide if you want to go DECK (which it sounds like you do) or ENGINEERING.
  3. If you are a served CO, then you can apply to sit for Unlimited Master after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  4. If you are a USMMA or USNA grad, and you have qualified OOD, you can sit for 3rd Mate after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  5. If you don’t meet one of the above Deck license paths but have a enough sea-time (which you likely do if you’re a SWO or submariner) then you’ll be eligible to sit for the 3rd mate AFTER meeting the OICNW practical-factor requirements. Lots of skills you’ll need to demonstrate AT SEA or in a TRAINER/SCHOOL (approved, of course!)
  6. If you are a served CHENG, then you can sit for Chief Engineer unlimited after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  7. STCW
    a. No way around it-- you have to do it.
    b. Minimum is basic and advanced firefighting, DC, lifeboat, medical provider, and GMDSS. There may be more. (That’s what I’m still working on).
    c. The standard uniformed-Navy’s courses, with VERY few exceptions, don’t meet any of the requirements.
    d. The Military Sealift Command schools at San Diego and Freehold, NJ * DO * meet all the requirements and you can try to get “space-a” seats at those schools (no-cost TAD) if you’re still on active duty.
    e. Otherwise, best bet is to do a course via one of the union schools (like you’ve found) or somewhere else. CAUTION: MAKE SURE THE SCHOOL YOU TAKE IS ACCREDITED AND GETS YOU THE GRAD CERT THAT YOU NEED.

Hope this helps![/quote]

thanx for the info. maybe we’ll serve together at sea. Cliff

8

thanx for the help/info.

9

[quote=CliffM;12336]Wow, I checked out the references you provided .Very informative, thank you! Complex and a bit confusing but informative nevertheless. Also, encouraging. It seems like my semi-ancient sea service will count for more then I first thought. :slight_smile:

Getting back to my original two questions in the beginning of the thread what do you think? Will I be considered AB Unlimited right out of the gate or ?? What will I have to do besides recency to test for 3rd Mate?

Cliff[/quote]

What do I think? HAH !! don’t get me started, my friend…When it comes to the STCW stuff I think they have completely lost their minds in some cases…

thanks for letting me rant…:slight_smile:

Sea time doesn’t expire,but you have to document it properly to be accepted…The single most piece of paper that saved me was my sea transcripts…I see you are already doing that,good…Save everything from your file that the navy gives you too…If there are any PQS books from things that you got signed off on your rise through the ranks ,keep them…You’ll be amazed how handy they may be down the road…

I think you said you had over a 1000 days sea time…AB unlimited is 1080 days on oceans or near coastal…You should be pretty close to that…For AB unlimited there isn’t a tonnage limit, just days…

The thing that you should be aware of is that with us enlisted guys that had a rating that was acceptable for sea time (QM,BM,OS…) they only give 60% of our total time…I remember seeing somewhere that 0’s, who could document OOD and JOOD got a day for day match…This is something that you need to research and I would suggest getting very familar with the Marine Safety Manual…It’s in there,somewhere…lol

Now the STCW will come into play…

You will first need Basic Safety Training,it’s a week long course that covers basic firefighting ,first aid/ CPR ,survival suits life rafts ect…

the prices vary between schools…figure 600-800.00

Next you will need Profiecient in survival craft ( Life Boatman) I see you were an OIC , this may carry some weight…

again prices may vary…figure 700.00

Then the real problem,… in order to be a true AB on ships over 500 gt ,you need to have what is called a Rating forming Part of a Navigational watch …aka (RFPNW).This is basically lookout qualifications and helmsman duties…

The problem is that you need to a lot of watches that are under supervision in order to get this rating…assuming that you have an OOD letter this may illiminate this part for you…For your sake, I hope so…

If you get into the STCW section table A-11/4 of the code will explain it…Or rather it’s suppose to…I’m going through the RFPNW myself and I was a QM2 and can’t stand a lookout watch without supervision…See why I’m less than miffed over these rules.??..They don’t always apply but they are the cards that we are dealt…

Right now the CG isn’t going to give you anything except Ordinary Seaman ,you have your twic already …You will need these classes to move up…

As for testing for third mate…That’s just too far above my paygrade sir …:slight_smile: Sorry,

There are some excellent sailors on here that will answer that question…Just do all the research you can, ask lots of questions and you will get more from this board than you can ever imagine…

10

[quote=Shellback;12345]What do I think? HAH !! don’t get me started, my friend…When it comes to the STCW stuff I think they have completely lost their minds in some cases…

thanks for letting me rant…:slight_smile:

Sea time doesn’t expire,but you have to document it properly to be accepted…The single most piece of paper that saved me was my sea transcripts…Do this while you are still on active duty…Save everything from your file that the navy gives you too…If there are any PQS books from things that you got signed off on your rise through the ranks ,keep them…You’ll be amazed how handy they may be down the road…

I think you said you had over a 1000 days sea time…AB unlimited is 1080 days on oceans or near coastal…You should be pretty close to that…For AB unlimited there isn’t a tonnage limit, just days…

The thing that you should be aware of is that with us enlisted guys that had a rating that was acceptable for sea time (QM,BM,OS…) they only give 60% of our total time…I remember seeing somewhere that 0’s, who could document OOD and JOOD got a day for day match…This is something that you need to research and I would suggest getting very familar with the Marine Safety Manual…It’s in there,somewhere…lol

Now the STCW will come into play…

You will first need Basic Safety Training,it’s a week long course that covers basic firefighting ,first aid/ CPR ,survival suits life rafts ect…

the prices vary between schools…figure 600-800.00

Next you will need Profiecient in survival craft ( Life Boatman)

again prices may vary…figure 700.00

Then the real problem,… in order to be a true AB on ships over 500 gt ,you need to have what is called a Rating forming Part of a Navigational watch …aka (RFPNW).This is basically lookout qualifications and helmsman duties…

The problem is that you need to a lot of watches that are under supervision in order to get this rating…assuming that you have an OOD letter this may illiminate this part for you…For your sake, I hope so…

If you get into the STCW section table A-11/4 of the code will explain it…Or rather it’s suppose to…I’m going through the RFPNW myself and I was a QM2 and can’t stand a lookout watch without supervision…See why I’m less than miffed over these rules.??..They don’t always apply but they are the cards that we are dealt…

Right now the CG isn’t going to give you anything except Ordinary Seaman and that’s if you have your TWIC and apply for your MMC…You will need these classes to move up…

As for testing for third mate…That’s just too far above my paygrade sir …:slight_smile: Sorry,

There are some excellent sailors on here that will answer that question…Just do all the research you can, ask lots of questions and you will get more from this board than you can ever imagine…[/quote]

Thanks so much for your detailed answer. This licensing/rating thing is so friggin complex that only after hearing the answer to the same question over and over from different people does is even start to take shape in your head.

What you said closely resembles what the Senior Chief from SIU said. Basically he told me that if they grant me a pass on the RFPNW (which he thinks they will :confused:) then after I take the classes you mentioned I can go to sea as an AB Unlimited. He said they would specify what classes I would need to test for 3rd Mate (in addition to about 6 months sea time for recency.) The back up plan if they do not give me a pass on the RFPNW would be to attend 7 weeks at Paul Hall in the veteran program. While I’m not thrilled about that it’s a heck of a lot shorter than people with no sea time have to spend there. They start with 90 days then go to sea then return for another 45 days. So…if I have to go for 7 weeks thats ok with me. Thanks again.

11

Cliff, you’re not alone…If it weren’t for these guys on this forum I would never be this far…

12

Cliff,

I’m an ex SWO; last sea service was 1996 and started the process to get my license in 2006.

1st; google to find the “Marine Safety Manual”, download it and read chapter 2 with a fine tooth comb. It will tell you exactly how the Coast Guard will evaluate your service.

Then get every one of your fitreps for all your service time together (no breaks), ALL of your qualification letters, and submit them with your statement of sea service letter.

First apply for your AB unlimited. They gave it to me right off the bat because of sea service and they waived the RFPNW assessments required for STCW because of my SWO qualification. I had to take a lifeboatman’s course to complete the requirements for STCW but that was it.

I went to sea as an AB to get my recency and completed all the 3rd mate assessments required by NMC policy letter 01-02. I then submitted my application for 1600ton Master AND 2nd Mate Unl. I was approved for both. I had the option to choose either path; I had to take 4 STCW classes for the 1600 ton license or 12 STCW classes for the 2nd Unl. I choose the 1600 ton license for 2 reasons; 1st it would be the quicker & cheaper route to a wheelhouse job and 2nd, after 360 days of service on vessels greater than 200 tons while holding a 1600 ton Master license, I could receive my 2nd unlimited with no additional STCW requirements.

Flood the Coast Guard with any and al documentation from the Navy that you can get your hands on. I included all fitreps, qual letters, school certificates, Blue Nose and Shellback certificates, and I even had a copy of my signed off SWO qual book that I included. My application package was probably 500 pages of stuff. I don’t know what exactly they used but I got everything I asked for. It took quite a while to evaluate my application because of this but it was worth it in the end!

good luck and feel free to pm me if you have any more questions.

PS, keep copies of anything you turn in to the Coast Guard and carry a copy of chapter 2 from the Marine Safety Manual with you to the REC with the parts that pertain to you highlighted. That way if they tell you that you don’t need this or you can’t do that, you can show them the instruction that says you are doing the right thing.

13

2 more things,

Your service as JOOD will count day for day but for your service as OOD you will get credited 2 days of commercial time for every OOD day, pretty good deal.

Also, rather than pay for the STCW schools, try to get on at a company that provides the schooling. I was lucky enough to get hired by a company that provides all the schools I needed free of charge. It just took my time to complete the courses.

Again, good luck

14

As an Enlisted Operations Specialist, also transitioning, I was told that 100% of my sea time is transferrable and that my level of licensing will be based upon my Page 5. The base quote I got was that I’d at least be able to get my Master 100grt /Mate 200 grt license straightway. I’m heading into the Yachting side of the house most likely, so this works out well.

Is there an online resource to calculate my Naval sea time to licensing equivalent?

15

[quote=RodThompson;12376]As an Enlisted Operations Specialist, also transitioning, I was told that 100% of my sea time is transferrable and that my level of licensing will be based upon my Page 5. The base quote I got was that I’d at least be able to get my Master 100grt /Mate 200 grt license straightway. I’m heading into the Yachting side of the house most likely, so this works out well.

Is there an online resource to calculate my Naval sea time to licensing equivalent?[/quote]

Rod welcome,

In an above post, I listed links for Cliff, that will be very helpful to you as well…

The link following this post will answer your question …

Marine Safety Manual Vol III chapter 2 paragraph B-1 will be important to you…It says additional info will be required in order to get more sea time credit than the usual 60%, that is normally allowed for underway time…I have never gone down that path I just took the 60% when I did it…Maybe someone else can shed some light on this…

After that paragraph make sure and check page 2-6 for the chart …

Also 46 CFR part 10.202 talks about recency and 10.428 talks about sea time for 100 ton Master licenses…This is in the other link above…

When I went for my 100 ton , I went to a two week class and tested at the school…It’s a combination of BM and QM 3/2 and 1/C …Rules of the road,general deck,safety,plotting and chart work ect…Because of my recency was on smaller vessels at the time I was awarded a 50 ton until I was able to get time on larger vessels…good luck…

Here is the link for the MSM…

http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/16000-16999/CIM_16000_8B.pdf

16

Sub Guy

Did you apply for AB or just bypass that and apply for 3rd Mate from the start?

Was the RFPNW requirement waived? Do you know any SWO’s and if they got a waiver on the RFPNW reqs?

What about all the STCW classes? You don’t mention that you’re having to take them. From what I understand there is still aprox 12 or more classes (plus test) that would take about 6 months and cost a bunch of $… Are you going to have to complete those?

17

Sub Guy

Did you apply for AB or just bypass that and apply for 3rd Mate from the start?

Was the RFPNW requirement waived? Do you know any SWO’s and if they got a waiver on the RFPNW reqs?

What about all the STCW classes? You did mention that you’re having to take some but from what I understand there is still aprox 12 or more classes (plus test) that would take about 6 months and cost a bunch of $… Are you going to have to complete all of those or did they waive a bunch of them?
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________

[quote=SubGuy;12305]Fellow Naval Officer here. I just recently started down the road you’re on so I feel your pain! You likely meet all of the requirements for non-STCW AB and Wiper just by virture of your sea time (plus completing the application, urinalysis, medical, etc…)

  1. Welcome to gCaptain. THE BEST resource for navigating the licensing structure.
  2. You need to decide if you want to go DECK (which it sounds like you do) or ENGINEERING.
  3. If you are a served CO, then you can apply to sit for Unlimited Master after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  4. If you are a USMMA or USNA grad, and you have qualified OOD, you can sit for 3rd Mate after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  5. If you don’t meet one of the above Deck license paths but have a enough sea-time (which you likely do if you’re a SWO or submariner) then you’ll be eligible to sit for the 3rd mate AFTER meeting the OICNW practical-factor requirements. Lots of skills you’ll need to demonstrate AT SEA or in a TRAINER/SCHOOL (approved, of course!)
  6. If you are a served CHENG, then you can sit for Chief Engineer unlimited after getting the STCW pre-reqs done (see below).
  7. STCW
    a. No way around it-- you have to do it.
    b. Minimum is basic and advanced firefighting, DC, lifeboat, medical provider, and GMDSS. There may be more. (That’s what I’m still working on).
    c. The standard uniformed-Navy’s courses, with VERY few exceptions, don’t meet any of the requirements.
    d. The Military Sealift Command schools at San Diego and Freehold, NJ * DO * meet all the requirements and you can try to get “space-a” seats at those schools (no-cost TAD) if you’re still on active duty.
    e. Otherwise, best bet is to do a course via one of the union schools (like you’ve found) or somewhere else. CAUTION: MAKE SURE THE SCHOOL YOU TAKE IS ACCREDITED AND GETS YOU THE GRAD CERT THAT YOU NEED.

Hope this helps![/quote]