I how long till somebody sues these OSV companies over ridiculous physicals when the USCG has now given us these little cards certifying us fit for duty at sea?
Not gonna happen.
The gummint can’t mandate that a company must hire someone. I mean, that would be akin to the gummint forcing you to buy health insurance.
But can a company say a person is not fit for duty at sea when the government says they are?
Nothing forcing them to hire, they just can’t say whether I’m fit or not. By the time you go to a physical, you are pretty much hired. How can a douchebag company dr say someone is not fit if they are now “certified” fit? Bordering on a discrimination case if you ask me.
Just seems ripe for a challenge to me. What happened in the trucking industry when they went to a similar medical card system?
[QUOTE=rigdvr;132879]Nothing forcing them to hire, they just can’t say whether I’m fit or not. By the time you go to a physical, you are pretty much hired. How can a douchebag company dr say someone is not fit if they are now “certified” fit? Bordering on a discrimination case if you ask me.
Just seems ripe for a challenge to me. What happened in the trucking industry when they went to a similar medical card system?[/QUOTE]
This is a good question. The only way to find out is litigate the issue in the courts for a few years. Companies should not be aloowed to require anything more than the USCG medical certificate?
What does the MLC convention say about company physicals?
My understanding is that British and Canadian shipping companies must accept the seafarers medical certificate, and that they are NOT allowed to conduct additional company physicals.
The company physical doesn’t determine your fitness for sea. It determines your fitness for that particular company. Just because someone fails ECOs physical doesn’t mean they aren’t fit to work for Kevin Gros. It just means you aren’t fit enough for ECO.
there might be a case for Age discrimination if the CG issues a medical cert? I am not a lawyer and I know that the boat companies have a lot of them.
It’s my understanding that women have won sex discrimination in employment lawsuits after company physicals screen them out based upon strength requirements that are not necessary for the job.
Self insured employers have these ridiculous physicals because If someone gets sick or is injured they have to pay the bill. They are trying to screen out anyone who is more likely to get sick or injured. Also studies show that people with only marginal strength are more likely to get injured.
These are all good reasons why the link between employment and healthcare should be broken. We need good portable insurance that has nothing to with where we are working. Obamacare is a typical defective government program but it is a small sep in the right direction.
If companies are allowed to screen out all but the most fit, we are going to be paying very high taxes from support all the people that the companies consider unemployable.
Waa waaaa wa. If your not fit, get in better shape. This is a cry baby society always looking to sue someone instead of just taking responsibility and doing what they have to do to better themselves.
Always someone else’s fault. Sue McDonald’s to because you couldn’t pass a physical. Maybe your high school gym teacher because you aren’t strong enough. Not sure if your whining because your weak or fat or have a back issue but I’m sure you can sue someone.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;132874]I how long till somebody sues these OSV companies over ridiculous physicals when the USCG has now given us these little cards certifying us fit for duty at sea?[/QUOTE]
Like it or not, anyone is allowed to adopt/implement a stricter standard than federal law as long as it is not unfairly punitive or discriminatory. This goes for individual state’s laws as well. You can own fully automatic weapons (provided ATF approves you) by federal law, but not if your state of residence has laws on the books saying you can’t.
The USCG can not prohibit a company from using stress tests, MRIs, or anything else above the standards of a USCG merchant mariner physical as a means of screening applicants.
Maersk Lines Ltd has been making crew members get EKGs done prior to employment for years. Pretty sure that is not part of 719k form, but it is still a test that ends up being used against crew members on a regular basis. Sometimes it catches a heart murmur and they get declined, or it gets interpreted wrong and they get declined.
for every one clinic or doctor that is out there declining suitably fit mariners, there are probably two or three that are rubber stamping the elderly and frail, the morbidly obese, the heavily insulin dependent diabetics, the two pack a day smokers, and the walking pharmacies as FFD for shipping, inland waters, the Great Lakes, and offshore. The latter worries me much more than the former.
Life ain’t fair.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;132879]Nothing forcing them to hire, they just can’t say whether I’m fit or not. By the time you go to a physical, you are pretty much hired. How can a douchebag company dr say someone is not fit if they are now “certified” fit? Bordering on a discrimination case if you ask me.
Just seems ripe for a challenge to me. What happened in the trucking industry when they went to a similar medical card system?[/QUOTE]
Yes, they can say whether you are fit or not. Just like they can drug test their OFFICE employees if they chose to, even though Federal Law has no say in it.
They have been certified fit by a lesser standard compared to what some of these employers want.
The USCG medical certs that are being sent were created because American ships overseas we’re getting questioned by port state control as to why the mariners on board did not have them. They were worried about vessel detentions in the future. We were out of alignment with latest MLC rules. They did it for shipping, not OSVs.
The USCG doesn’t give a crap about some company’s clinic or doctor of choice not accepting your medical cert as proof positive of your fitness to work for them.
Rigdvr that last part is not directed at you, but to the audience at large.
Everyone who sees this as some kind of double standard needs to re-read the DEC 24 2013, USCG memo on this subject. It clearly states “minimum mariner medical qualifications” are the basis for our medical certs.
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/STCW_publication_final_rule_24Dec13.pdf
[QUOTE=tugsailor;132934]It’s my understanding that women have won sex discrimination in employment lawsuits after company physicals screen them out based upon strength requirements that are not necessary for the job.
Self insured employers have these ridiculous physicals because If someone gets sick or is injured they have to pay the bill. They are trying to screen out anyone who is more likely to get sick or injured. Also studies show that people with only marginal strength are more likely to get injured.
These are all good reasons why the link between employment and healthcare should be broken. We need good portable insurance that has nothing to with where we are working. Obamacare is a typical defective government program but it is a small sep in the right direction.
If companies are allowed to screen out all but the most fit, we are going to be paying very high taxes from support all the people that the companies consider unemployable.[/QUOTE]
They screen to reduce their medical insurance rates supposedly. If the labor shortage is acute enough to run the risk of tying up a vessel applicants seems to be healthier for a period of time. Often the screening for higher ranks is not as strict as for the lower. There are some docs that are paid on a per patient basis. If you were one of those guys you’d flunk as many as you thought you could get away with. Most of the people in this line of medicine are not exactly some sort of medical pioneer or highly sought after genius anyway. It’s the USA, it is all about the money ! Money is the measure of human value, we all know that.
Most companies in other countries, Canada, UK, Mexico etc don’t have to worry about this crap because the employee is already covered by insurance.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;132942]They screen to reduce their medical insurance rates supposedly. If the labor shortage is acute enough to run the risk of tying up a vessel applicants seems to be healthier for a period of time. Often the screening for higher ranks is not as strict as for the lower. There are some docs that are paid on a per patient basis. If you were one of those guys you’d flunk as many as you thought you could get away with. Most of the people in this line of medicine are not exactly some sort of medical pioneer or highly ,sought after genius anyway. It’s the USA, it is all about the money ! Money is the measure of human value, we all know that.
Most companies in other countries, Canada, UK, Mexico etc don’t have to worry about this crap because the employee is already covered by insurance.[/QUOTE]
If they were really trying to reduce insurance premiums, they would stop hiring smokers/tobacco users and would not take applications from those who have done either in last 6 mos.
that practice is becoming very commonplace amongst police/sheriff/firefighting agencies ih the US.
I imagine they are much more concerned with workplace injury lawsuits from the lower ranks (by people who may have or do have previous injuries) than they are about saving money on insurance premiums.
Maybe lay off on the fried food and processed meats too? Bet prohibiting the cooks from making that crap would be cheaper…they obviously have no issues with whacky rules.
For those implying I’m crying…I don’t have an issue…I passed the physical already. I just think its insane that the gov can declare someone fit but a pill popping bayou foot doctor can say otherwise.
[QUOTE=z-drive;132949]Maybe lay off on the fried food and processed meats too? Bet prohibiting the cooks from cooking that crap would be cheaper…they obviously have no issues with whacky rules.[/QUOTE]
Who are these cooks you speak of?
my company pushes testing for entry into the insurer’s wellness program so everybody pays lower premiums.
Meanwhile the boat spends over $1200 a week on crap like frozen pizzas, mac and cheese, fruit loops, canned biscuits, and cases upon cases of soft drinks.
they won’t hire cooks and they won’t make a dedicated exercise space on the newbuilds.
very progressive indeed!
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[QUOTE=rigdvr;132950]For those implying I’m crying…I don’t have an issue…I passed the physical already. I just think its insane that the gov can declare someone fit but a pill popping bayou foot doctor can say otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn’t be the first thing the USCG declared as okay that was absolutely wrong, catered to OMSA, or downright retarded. Sorry if that last word offends anyone; I can’t think of an acceptable substitute.
But when you get hurt isn’t it the company you sue. I have seen many a mariner goofing around off shift get hurt sue the company. Also seen companies who don’t do physicals and mariner lied to USCG and claimed they hurt their back on the boat but during investigation for trial found their back was already injured and they knew it. A company should be able to whatever they like before hiring a mariner, if the mariner doesn’t like there they can apply elsewhere.
And you don’t need machines to get a workout. Imagination can build anything
Be careful what you wish for…
[QUOTE=rigdvr;132961]Be careful what you wish for…[/QUOTE]
So true…
I didn’t advocate any such free reign in hiring practices in my postings.
An attitude like that might lead to some non-racial form of ‘separate but equal’ between boat operators. Not good for any of us.
Many of times they have said hang from this rope for 10 secs. I am 300 lbs I simply walk out at that point