[QUOTE=Bamatug;132963]Many of times they have said hang from this rope for 10 secs. I am 300 lbs I simply walk out at that point[/QUOTE]
What license do you require to operate yourself?
The government can set a minimum standard all they want. But as long as there’s a big enough labor market it’s not discrimination if they hire someone who’s more fit. They should want to try to get more fit crews. It’s not age discrimination either if you’re only looking at the person’s health. Healthier crews would make for a safer workplace. Plus bc of the jones act, regardless of whatever the healthcare setup is, if you’re injured working on a vessel the vessel owner is required to pay your injury related bills even if it was the employees fault. Usually in a jones act injury suit it’s just a lump settlement in your favor. That could add up to a big financial liability if someone has some preexisting, undisclosed condition.
Its not just mariners. Its becoming all types of jobs, except the government. The insurance companies are pushing these excessive physicals. The quack occupational clinic doctors are pushing them. The occupational doctors failed at treating patients, so they are whoring themselves out to insurance companies.
What are we going to do if this continues to grow? Put half the population on disability? Lower the retirement age to 50? Too many people already have too many excuses not to work, and too many rights not to work. The last thing our society needs to do is discourage more people from working.
What happens when the big companies like Kirby, Harvey, Chouest, and Crowley, that have these ridiculous physicals, buy up more and more and more small family companies and greatly increase their marketshare? It is going to become much more difficult for anyone not in perfect health to find a job because so few small companies are going to be left.
At my age, with my skills, and my contacts, I will always be able to find jobs at smaller companies for as long as I want to work.
But what about you middle aged guys, when you get a little older? What about younger guys who have relatively minor off the job injuries and then cannot pass these ridiculous physicals. You young guys had better stop skydiving, skiing, riding motorcycles, and playing sports. One little injury could end your career at any company with excessive physicals.
Like I said as long as the labor market can support them being picky and still turn a profit with increased labor costs, there’s no incentive for them not to be picky. It’s not discrimination. There will always be jobs out there, maybe just not jobs making 400 a day on a boat. Working on deck really shouldn’t be a job you do your whole life anyway unless your one of those people who stays fit into their 80s. I’d imagine working on deck after 50 could be pretty dangerous for the average person. At some point in your life you have to move to shoreside work.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;133029]Like I said as long as the labor market can support them being picky and still turn a profit with increased labor costs, there’s no incentive for them not to be picky. It’s not discrimination. There will always be jobs out there, maybe just not jobs making 400 a day on a boat. Working on deck really shouldn’t be a job you do your whole life anyway unless your one of those people who stays fit into their 80s. I’d imagine working on deck after 50 could be pretty dangerous for the average person. At some point in your life you have to move to shoreside work.[/QUOTE]
How old are you, 23? I have been in the wheelhouse for a longtime, but I often have former fishermen on deck in their 60’s. You wouldn’t want to arm wrestle with them.
Haha yes! I Wouldn’t scrap with one of my deckhands and he’s older than my father. Won’t beat a guy like that on deck.
Good point, my bad with the ages I said, maybe more like if you’re still trying to go to sea in your 80s but even then I’ve seen plenty of old salts who I’d want on my side in a fight. Full disclaimer you were close with the age; I am in my mid 20s.
But also age isn’t the part that matters, it’s your health. A 300lb diabetic, with severe hypertension could be a huge risk whether he’s 25, 45, or 65. What are you supposed to give him special consideration and say “well bc of his condition he can’t go aloft, or fight a fire, or anything else that might be dangerous” and it’s not only his safety but the crew’s as well. Have you ever tried pulling a 300lbs weight out of a tank or a confined space. I haven’t and I sure as hell wouldn’t want to.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;133052]Good point, my bad with the ages I said, maybe more like if you’re still trying to go to sea in your 80s but even then I’ve seen plenty of old salts who I’d want on my side in a fight. Full disclaimer you were close with the age; I am in my mid 20s.
But also age isn’t the part that matters, it’s your health. A 300lb diabetic, with severe hypertension could be a huge risk whether he’s 25, 45, or 65. What are you supposed to give him special consideration and say “well bc of his condition he can’t go aloft, or fight a fire, or anything else that might be dangerous” and it’s not only his safety but the crew’s as well. Have you ever tried pulling a 300lbs weight out of a tank or a confined space. I haven’t and I sure as hell wouldn’t want to.[/QUOTE]
Good for you young man.
If a guy weighs 300 lbs his BMI will be over 40, so he would get an enhanced USCG physical that he probably won’t pass. Doesn’t the USCG disqualify virtually all diabetics? Isn’t severe hypertension a disqualifying condition?
The truth is that most small vessels don’t not have scbas or firefighting suits, so firefighting is limited to squirting a little water from outside, or setting off the CO2 system. No one is going in without proper gear.
Some companies have BMI cut offs , at say 30. If BMI were a more accurate measure that might not be so bad, but young super strong weight lifters and football players would also be excluded at 30. The way the USCG does it makes sense, a BMI over 40 requires additional scrutiny.
One of the best captains I have ever known only had one leg. He served his country well , and did a hell of job running tug for a great many years. Never had any injuries on board. Who would hire him today?
Some of these companies are rejecting young thin guys over trivial health issues, like a knee that only healed to 90 percent range of motion after a skiing accident. Most people over 50, especially the hardworking ones, are going to have some arthritis and or disk degeneration that will show up in X-rays or agility tests. They continue working without a problem for years.
The best thing about Obamacare is that it forces any company that wants to sell insurance to accept anyone who is able to pay the premiums without regard to pre existing conditions. Similarly, employers that want to do business in the US should not be able to disqualify any working age person from employment, if they have the ability to do the job. Sooner or later, Congress or the courts are going to put a stop to these excessive preemployment physicals by quack company doctors.
You’ve got my curiosity up. What’s usually included in these pre-employment physicals? I’m 50 yo and looking to shift to GOM work with my DDE Any HP or the OSV endorsement I’m hoping to add on this summer’s license renewal. No medical issues. Aspirin is the only med I take. LOL
Any examples of the physical requirement? Do I need to start running and riding a bike? LOL Thanks.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;133055]If a guy weighs 300 lbs his BMI will be over 40, so he would get an enhanced USCG physical that he probably won’t pass. Doesn’t the USCG disqualify virtually all diabetics?..[/QUOTE]
There is no “enhanced physical.” If someone’s BMI is over 40, the only additional requirement is that the Doctor certify they can perform the physical demonstration described on the form.
Diabetes is not disqualifying. There is a standard, measurable test of diabetic control, if your Hemoglobin A1C levels are maintained at 8.0 or lower, you will likely get a waiver. Most diabetic mariners maintain their condition to this standard, and most of those that are originally denied get their condition under control and get a waiver.
On the general subject of this discussion, the Coast Guard describes minimum standards and is concerned with marine safety. These standards and the reasons for them may be different with an employer.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;133039]How old are you, 23? I have been in the wheelhouse for a longtime, but I often have former fishermen on deck in their 60’s. You wouldn’t want to arm wrestle with them.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, a former fisherman doesn’t qualify as an “average person”…
Just turned 50, and I am in good shape, my BP is very low, no blubber to speak of, jog and bike every day when able and eat no meats or fats. I do have a feeling that when companies see my b-day, they say “next”. They figure, 50 = old fat. I stay fit also by working as a brick/stone mason partime . I would like the chance just to be able to walk in the door and take the physical. Stay fit mariners.
I am 300 lbs and there are several BMi test. I work put everyday and run at least 3 times a week. Just can’t hang with 300lbs tugging at me
[QUOTE=Doodlebug;133133]Just turned 50, and I am in good shape, my BP is very low, no blubber to speak of, jog and bike every day when able and eat no meats or fats. I do have a feeling that when companies see my b-day, they say “next”. They figure, 50 = old fat. I stay fit also by working as a brick/stone mason partime . I would like the chance just to be able to walk in the door and take the physical. Stay fit mariners.[/QUOTE]
That is bullshit.
The average mariner is 56 with a beer belly.
I’m in my 60’s and have a nice beer belly that is all paid for. Most companies are happy to hire me. However the biggest and best paying Gulf companies will not hire me.
You can get a good job at a smaller company. You just have to go do it.
Maybe this is off topic but we all seem to be airing out all of our medical concerns so I thought I’d try this one on for size: what’s the deal with sleep apnea? I keep hearing that it’s a big USCG “no-no” but are there any waivers to be had for it? What happens if you get diagnosed with something like this? Do they just revoke your license until you can convince the CG medical board to waive you? I have never been diagnosed with sleep apnea but several members of my family have so I figure it’s just a matter of time…
Usually they make guys use one of those platypus machines with a data recording thing and do those “sleep studies” to the CG’s satisfaction which may or may not require them to send in data for review. Best case is to just not get diagnosed with it. Few of the old men I have sailed with have dealt with it but that’s usually after 50+ years of smoking, eating like a pig and not exercising.
I know a few guys who have the regular doctor and the “CG doctor”
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;133172]Maybe this is off topic but we all seem to be airing out all of our medical concerns so I thought I’d try this one on for size: what’s the deal with sleep apnea? I keep hearing that it’s a big USCG “no-no” but are there any waivers to be had for it? What happens if you get diagnosed with something like this? Do they just revoke your license until you can convince the CG medical board to waive you? I have never been diagnosed with sleep apnea but several members of my family have so I figure it’s just a matter of time…[/QUOTE]
I remember back around 2000 they (Doctors) were telling anyone that snored to go through a “Sleep Study” and most of everyone that went through one of these Studies were told that they has Sleep Apnea. They got the machine and said it really helped their snoring. I have heard of a lot of Truckers that did the same thing. Now those Truckers are finding that the DOT has a real hard on for anyone that has Sleep Apnea and is making them jump through a bunch of hoops.
Back when all this was going on I wondered if it would come back to bite them in the ass and it sounds like it is.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;133167]That is bullshit.
The average mariner is 56 with a beer belly.
I’m in my 60’s and have a nice beer belly that is all paid for. Most companies are happy to hire me. However the biggest and best paying Gulf companies will not hire me.
You can get a good job at a smaller company. You just have to go do it.[/QUOTE]
Not Bullshit, Sorry that most have belly over belt, I don’t, maybe I have no belly genes. Anyway, I am heading down, and taking your advise, smaller companies will be on top of list.
[QUOTE=Tugs;133179]I remember back around 2000 they (Doctors) were telling anyone that snored to go through a “Sleep Study” and most of everyone that went through one of these Studies were told that they has Sleep Apnea. They got the machine and said it really helped their snoring. I have heard of a lot of Truckers that did the same thing. Now those Truckers are finding that the DOT has a real hard on for anyone that has Sleep Apnea and is making them jump through a bunch of hoops.
Back when all this was going on I wondered if it would come back to bite them in the ass and it sounds like it is.[/QUOTE]
I’m not aware the Coast Guatd made anyone who snored get a sleep study. In around 2009 the CG was having anyone with a BMI over 40 get a sleep study.
If your CG physical report indicates that you have been diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea, you may get a waiver if you are prescribed and regularly using a CPAP and it is effective in controlling the condition.