Reauxllllll tiiiiiiiddddeee…
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;138766]You’re right, the the game is to be hated. It is a joke.
I wish CC were 100% right, but alas, he is not. These exact same questions were asked and answered (with the exact same NMC Q/A sessions) months ago on here.
It does make getting a Master’s license worth a lot less these days. And I’m sure there is an equivalent slap in the face path to Chief Engineer.
OSV Florida, you want to earn your Master’s license… go get a Chief Mate’s License and get a Chief Mate job on a ship. I don’t care if it’s Maersk Lines or TransAtlantic Lines.
Stand bridge watches, actively manage 2 mates and 6 ABs, put up with droves of 3rd world longshoremen and stevedores, work endless hours with little or no notice in port (that’s right, no hanging out on the bridge after tie-up), ballast and inspect tanks (repeatedly), handle all aspects of cargo (be they bulk or liquid), sign DOIs, be responsible for planning all fire and boat drills and safety training, the list goes on…
That’s how you earn your Master’s license.
Anything else is bullshit…[/QUOTE]
Worry not fellow U/L Engineers, I have recently prayed for widespread shortages of both stones and turtles…we should be fine.
I may have missed it if someone else mentioned it but my understanding is that uscg has in fact issued Unlimited licenses. However a committee within uscg decided that the licenses previously issued would in fact be revoked as they were mistakenly issued. However they are issuing master licenses for osv not to exceed 10,000 grt. This 10,000 ton license is only applicable to osv’s. You must possess a 6000 with at least X amount of days of tonnage over 3000. In addition in some circumstances it may be in 1000 ton increments between 6000 and 10,000.
[QUOTE=Dsc;138804]I may have missed it if someone else mentioned it but my understanding is that uscg has in fact issued Unlimited licenses. However a committee within uscg decided that the licenses previously issued would in fact be revoked as they were mistakenly issued. However they are issuing master licenses for osv not to exceed 10,000 grt. This 10,000 ton license is only applicable to osv’s. You must possess a 6000 with at least X amount of days of tonnage over 3000. In addition in some circumstances it may be in 1000 ton increments between 6000 and 10,000.[/QUOTE]
The whole thing sounds reminiscent of the old T-AGOS licenses from the '80s. Specific license, for a specific class of vessel over 1600- sea time does not go towards the traditional unlimited license. What’s old is new?
I sailed TAGOS with masters with restricted unlimited licenses. If i remember correctly they were just under 1600 and there were manning issues early in the program. The ship’s GT was around 2200 after being re-measured and the CG grandfather’d the guys who were already sailing as master. Their UL master license was only for that class of ship.
before STCW '95 became in effect the USCG issued many special vessel specific licenses. Chouest had them for the masters of the PALMER I recall.
one thing that surprises me is that they still have dual tonnage on any license. Why have 1600grt/3000gt? To me it should just be a simple 3000tons yet today we still refer to it as a 1600ton license. If you are qualified for 3000tons why be called 1600? All references to 1600tons should be removed. To me it serves no point. I don’t like that there are even two classes of tonnage yet I understand why there are because of the manning issues. The entire scale of vessel manning needs to be changed to reflect a single unified tonnage but that will not happen. The vessel owners would howl if that were to change. Why not just remove all grt tonnage limits though?
regarding the crossover “up” between master of less than 3000tons and unlimited, I agree that the drop to 3rd mate is bullshit and should be changed to 2nd mate to match the crossover “down” between 2nd mate UL and master 3000tons. This inequality is not fair and the idea of it being an “up”/“down” crossover is wrong. It should be equal. Someday when there are super large OSV licenses, maybe a simplified crossover will happen as I proposed in an earlier thread.
to be on record, I don’t want it to be so overly difficult for limited mariners to become unlimited…it should be just and fair for all.
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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;138798]Reauxllllll tiiiiiiiddddeee…[/QUOTE]
is that tiiiiiiddddeee waaaatttteer?
I think with the T-AGOS, it was a matter of shutting the barn door after the horses got out. As I heard it, the measurement was changed after AMO lobbied to raise the vessels’ tonnage to unlimited, thereby stocking their hall with more jobs. The original guys had proven themselves amply qualified to continue to run the vessel, so were granted the license unique to that vessel. I agree that 1600 gross domestic tonnage/3000 ITC is becoming overly cumbersome, especially when working overseas. Nobody outside this country can wrap their heads around a 220’ vessel being less than 300 gross ton, because inspection bulkheads work their voodoo with ABS. What’s good for the company ain’t necessarily what’s good for the men who run their ships. It makes safety more of an abstract concept. Perhaps metric never took off in this country, but perhaps it’s time we went with a universal measurement of tonnage that is consistent with the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;138788]…how many discharges do you have for yourself signed by yourself as Master [/QUOTE]
I’d suggest having your relief sign the discharge. That way you have documentation that you didn’t leave the ship until properly relieved.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;138819]I’d suggest having your relief sign the discharge. That way you have documentation that you didn’t leave the ship until properly relieved.[/QUOTE]
glad you’re back JD…now that you are here I will consider myself as relieved and leave this ship in very capable hands.
now regarding discharges. I thought the USCG was wanting a company letter these days to support discharges presented for license purposes. This was to prevent too many getting their hands on a blank book of discharge forms and having a field day with them.
also, can you tell the listening audience anything about any new class of super large OSV licenses? will they be up to 10000grt? will there be a chief mate and first assistant engineer grade finally added? anything at all to bridge the chasm between offshore workboat and offshore ship?
please elucidate? speak man!
[QUOTE=c.captain;138821]glad you’re back JD…now that you are here I will consider myself as relieved and leave this ship in very capable hands.
now regarding discharges. I thought the USCG was wanting a company letter these days to support discharges presented for license purposes. This was to prevent too many getting their hands on a blank book of discharge forms and having a field day with them.
also, can you tell the listening audience anything about any new class of super large OSV licenses? will they be up to 10000grt? will there be a chief mate and first assistant engineer grade finally added? anything at all to bridge the chasm between offshore workboat and offshore ship?
please elucidate? speak man![/QUOTE]
News to me, but I’m not involved in the minutia of what evaluators tell mariners, unless someone seeks me out to tell me, or I read it here. Plus, it makes no sense. The other copy of the discharge that isn’t given to the mariner gets sent to NMC by the ship and is entered into the same database used to track and issue documents. With one click in your file I can pull up a transcript of all your sea time that was recorded on discharges.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;138822]News to me, but I’m not involved in the minutia of what evaluators tell mariners, unless someone seeks me out to tell me, or I read it here. Plus, it makes no sense. The other copy of the discharge that isn’t given to the mariner gets sent to NMC by the ship and is entered into the same database used to track and issue documents. With one click in your file I can pull up a transcript of all your sea time that was recorded on discharges.[/QUOTE]
yeah, but a lot of the carbon copies of the discharges don’t get sent to the USCG is the reason. Sloppy paperwork management by masters or people getting their hands on a blank discharge and “creating” some needed seatime. Maybe the master of the US flagged UL vessels out there complete the big yellow(?) discharge sheet (forget the CG# of it) and send it in with the corresponding discharge copies but I doubt too many smaller vessel masters even know what they are or have ever seen one? I haven’t seen one in many years
[QUOTE=c.captain;138828]yeah, but a lot of the carbon copies of the discharges don’t get sent to the USCG is the reason. Sloppy paperwork management by masters or people getting their hands on a blank discharge and “creating” some needed seatime. Maybe the master of the US flagged UL vessels out there complete the big yellow(?) discharge sheet (forget the CG# of it) and send it in with the corresponding discharge copies but I doubt too many smaller vessel masters even know what they are or have ever seen one? I haven’t seen one in many years[/QUOTE]
That was my whole point, only ships do it. Only time I ever had a problem with my discharge was me applying for upgrade test not less than 2 weeks after my last discharge was mailed in. It simply hadn’t been processed yet.
it is no longer carbon copy ( I just referenced that old style b/c mr Florida is so salty). My last discharge from Horizon (2/2013) was black and white and about 50% larger than the old green ones.
the office should be taken out of this equation and put the accountability on the master.
uscg discharges can be downloaded.
Would be nice if they offered the U/L CM/M courses on the West coast. I asked Christine Klimkowski if they (PMI) would back in November. She said possibly 9months to a year. Crossing my fingers.
[QUOTE=Quimby;138840]Would be nice if they offered the U/L CM/M courses on the West coast. I asked Christine Klimkowski if they (PMI) would back in November. She said possibly 9months to a year. Crossing my fingers.[/QUOTE]
WTF? really? PMI doesn’t already and they are an MMP school?
[QUOTE=c.captain;138846]WTF? really? PMI doesn’t already and they are an MMP school?[ /QUOTE]
Nothing new there.
PMI is nowhere near the size of MITAGS or AMO school at Dania. You have to be able to offer a lot more than that curriculum to support yourself.
Just read wheelhouse weekly off MMP website and you will see class list at bottom for both schools.