The fight starts around 1:30. A classic OT dispute that turns violent. For the screenwriter on the forum, this might be something to write into your movie.
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Classic case of âdonât fuck with my ricebowlâ. Iâd be willing to bet this is not the first incident with this guy.
Indian officers/Filipino ratings = shitty combination (based on the Filipinos I have talked with). I have talked with a lot of Filipino seafarers and NOT ONE has EVER had anything positive to say about working for an Indian. Eastern Europeans, Norwegians, Ukrainians have all gotten mostly positive reviewsâŚIndians? ZERO positive reviews for both shipboard and shoreside.
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India is noted for a âkiss up, kick downâ culture, the mate seem dismissive on the tape
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@hCaptain, @Hawespiper, @DavidMT. Absolutely, 100%, no reason what-so-ever reason to condone violence like this. Doesnât matter if the CM is from India, Timbuktu or Mars. If his hands are on the desk having a civilized conversation you donât punch him in the face like a wild beast. You some sick bastards to support, excuse or condone this. Reminds me of the old school union brotherhood who defended & paid for the legal defense of the monsters who raped Midshipman X. Stompout this nonsense violence. Inexcusable.
No has said this was justified.
Exploring and trying to understand the complete circumstances of the incident is not the same as condoning it.
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Attacking a victims nationality or ethnicity is no different than attacking a sexually assault victims gender. The man couldnât help where he was born.
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If you treat your people like beasts, donât be surprised if the beasts bite you. âKicking downâ is fun until you find others just might decide to âkick upâ.
And you remind me of the new school left which supports the mantra of âaccusation=guiltyâ / âguilty until proven innocentâ. To that, I too say that:
But he could damn sure help how he treated his subordinates. I think he may have a greater understanding of that now.
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No one attacked the CMâs nationality or ethnicity, I, and others pointed out hat various cultures donâ always mesh well, and we donât know all of the circumstances, we donât even know what was being said
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You damn shooting. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Just like that Chief Mate now & Midshipman X knows where you are coming from. You people stick together pretty tight. Fuck that Indian officer, that son of bitch repeating what his office told him. If a company doesnât want to give OT you woop the CM ass. If you want some pussy you take it. Violence is the way with you people. Deep pockets to pay legal defense, no problem.
Hawspiper went directly to his nationality & you explicitly mentioned his culture. If you 2 didnât mention I & many others wouldnât even know he was from India. If this was the other way around & the CM came across the table throwing punches at the bosun you guys would cry so hard your mangianias would bleed. But it was an unlicensed union brother who committed an assault & you thumbs up each others saying how the CM learned his lesson. Pathetic.
That reaction isnât âIâm mad that Maersk doesnât allow OTââŚthat reaction is âhey MFer, you had me and (most likely the rest of the deck gang since this is the Bosun) work these long/extra hours, then you didnât put the hours on our pay voucherâ. The fact you canât see that speaks to yourâŚI donât know, ignorance? Inexperience? not exactly sure what youâre missing.
Your continuing to bring up midshipman X and your insistence that the accused is guilty despite having ZERO supporting evidence just highlights a gap weâre not going to be able to close. I believe in the necessity for due process and you donât. For me, that is as bedrock a principle that there is in our country and I canât have any respect for someone who claims to be an American that feels otherwise.
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More ignorance/inexperienceâŚnews flashâŚthis is a FOREIGN ship with FOREIGN crew. IF the unlicensed crew is in a Union, it is one like AMOSUP which is a completely different entity to any of the US unions, and thus not any of our âUnion Brothersâ.
As a side note, I find it hilarious that you champion yourself as so pro-survivor / believe all women, then you throw out the term âmanginaâ as an insult to us males by comparing us to/assigning us female traits. Just hilarious.
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For you & other mariners to not connect the violent culture dots between a physical assault on a CM & a sexual assault on a midshipman is exactly the point. You cheer & give excuses for the bosun who committed an obvious assault on the CM & demand due process for other mariners who were accused of heinous crime of rape. Makes me want to throw up that we share the same profession & similar job titles. I get it, that you donât get it. One man physically attacking another over words is incomprehensible to me. For you, that is understandable & can be excused away. Animals.
But you win. I wonât give it another thought or reply. If you say this violent culture aboard ship & defense of violent culture aboard ship doesnât relate in any way so be it. I donât need the argument owning any real estate in my brain. Good day to you sir. Not my problem.
Nope. The bosun deserves to be and should be fired, no doubt. The video would make the due process (even Indians and Filipinos believe in that) quite simple.
To be honest, with the Bosun being as mad as he was, the C/M was lucky he didnât get a one way trip over the rail while underway. Probably wouldnât be any video of that one.
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I would recommend that @Sand_Pebble cool off and come back and re-read @DavidMT and @Hawespiper responses. Based off their posts, I can tell they are experienced and knowledgeable and have definitely been in the industry awhile. They provided some good insight to deepsea shipboard life and dynamics. @Sand_Pebble based on this comment you havenât worked overseas or with different cultures much. Most of us deep sea foreign going sailors can tell if we are talking to an Indian, Filipino, or American over the radio just based on their accent.
[quote=âSand_Pebble, post:10, topic:63939â]
his nationality & you explicitly mentioned his culture. If you 2 didnât mention I & many others wouldnât even know he was from India.
[/quote]. Also, some Indians are hundu and still believe strongly in a caste system. This could be an underlying contributing cause as Filipinos who are culturally different. @DavidMT hints at this culture in his post.
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There isnât one person who has ever worked at sea who hasnât wanted to do this to a superior officer at some point in their career.
The vast majority of mariners have never contemplated raping a crew member.
I donât understand how the rape stuff got into this discussion.
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Item: extract
STANDARD TERMS AND CONDITIONS GOVERNING THE OVERSEAS EMPLOYMENT OF FILIPINO SEAFARERS ON-BOARD OCEAN-GOING VESSELS SHIPS.pdf (21.4 KB)
Without this recording the chief mate would be a looser.
Dismissal of a PH seafarer is an administrative nightmare and Owners/Managers are reluctant to do it due to legal hurdles. Master must know the POEA contract by heart and follow STRICTLY contained there disciplinary procedure and act with a speed of lightning regarding collection of evidence and witness testimonies. Even the lowest ranks of PH seafarers know their a/m contract like the back of their hand and receive prior contract a dedicated training , how to avoid punishment.
One of their strongest points is , that they âlie collectivelyâ and engage in " evidence/witness tampering/manipulation" defending their own even in cases of serious acts of disciplinary breaches. From my experience it looks They are abuse resistant , however as all of us , some may have different levels of tolerance resulting sometimes in violent acts with use of knives ,axes and other hardware. Treat Them fair , with respect and one has 99% chance they repay with their harts on a plate.
Whether some like it or not that is a general perception based on PH testimonies and own experiences but I can be wrong of course.
Making definite judgements based on this old clip shall be discouraged. It shows the bosun committing punishable offence for which he should face the music as per attached list. Cheers.
Iâve had the great pleasure of working with Philippino unlicensed for the last several years. We work together, travel together, eat together & now since covid restrictions are over hang out again ashore together. Guys arenât dumb. If I showed them that video Iâm sure theyâd be just as appalled as me. If I then started making comments about ârice bowls cultureâ & making fun of the victims nationality theyâd think I took a racist/asshole pill. Only white people surrounded by other white people talk nonsense like that. Violence & the talk afterwards like that donât work on my ship. Meal time. Iâll be eating adabo in 10 minutes, gotta go.
Well said and couldnât agree more. In my experience, they will put up with what they perceive as mistreatment with minimal pushback until they reach that certain point at which time watch out⌠The proverbial âsnappingâ.
Treat them professionally and fairly, pay attention to body language, and address issues early and in a respectful manner, and your 99% success rate will be realized.
Chief Snowflake is highly naive if he thinks his Filipino crew would back an Indian (or any other non-Filipino) C/M over their fellow Filipino crew mates.
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If anybody else needs help with the metaphor âdonât mess with a manâs rice bowlâ, please advise.
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