Crew fighting on shore

Professional Mariner Forum
1

What is your company / command policy for crew member who attacks another crewmember on shore? We just had this happen and dealt with it.

I am interested to hear from the forum, because the breadth of experience and companies is quite good. The Inspecting Cabins thread sorted out that quite quickly I thought

2

[QUOTE=+A465B;87540]What is your company / command policy for crew member who attacks another crewmember on shore? We just had this happen and dealt with it.

I am interested to hear from the forum, because the breadth of experience and companies is quite good. The Inspecting Cabins thread sorted out that quite quickly I thought[/QUOTE]

Sounds like something white trash would do. That retard has no business being on a ship. Unreal.

3

Yes - that is most easily understood and was the end result.

4

The policy at MSC is zero tolerance. The reality is inconsistent and can range from dismissal to indifference.

5

From what I’ve seen, if there on the clock still they both get caned, the attacker for ovious reason, the attackie becouse he did not report the problem with a indivigual to the office. Off the clock the cops get called and normaly both get haulled off. Allways hard with that one, but in the end if u have that state of mind u don’t belong on any boat. The best I’ve ever seen was one capt jump off his boat and fight another capt on his boat. Both were arested by uscg and lost their lic for life, they were both underway

6

Why is it that everyone gets their nickers in a knot over someone saying: ‘Gee, that last one sounds straight out of the oilpatch!’. One of the things I like about this industry is: let the chips fall where they may. We all stand, sink or swim on our own merits and reputation.

7

Interesting…

Good morning to Captain and crew alike and welcome to the
Admiralty Docket. This is John Hughes Cooper with a glimpse into
your rights and responsibilities at sea and upon the navigable
waters.
Today our subject is sailors and seamen: wards of the
admiralty court.
Members of a crew employed upon a vessel are called seamen,

  • regardless of the size of the vessel or the duties of employment.
    Many workers, far removed from the traditional work of seamen, are
    classified as seamen under the admiralty law. Even bartenders,
    beauticians, muscicians, and palm readers have all been found to be
    seamen, when employed aboard a cruise ship.
    Seamen are protected as wards of the admiralty courts. Judges
    are extremely liberal in the application of laws to protect them.
    The reasons for the protection of seamen are related to the dangers
    and hardships traditionally faced by seamen in their jobs and to
    the benefits of seamen’s work to maritime commerce and to national
    defense.
    As Judge Biggs stated in the case of Jones v. Waterman
    Steamship Corp. " the relationship of the shipowner to the seaman
    is more closely analogous to that of father and child than to that
    of an employer to a mere employee.“
    Seamen are commonly described by the admiralty courts as “poor
    and friendless and apt to acquire habits of gross indulgence,
    carelessness and improvidence.” Time and again seamen are able to live up to the full measure of this description.
    The seaman who falls ill or who is injured while under
    articles or subject to the call of duty is entitled to maintenance
    and cure. The vessel herself and her owner are liable for the
    payment of maintentance and cure without any regard to fault.
    The very same conduct by landlubbers which is condemned as
    "assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature” if committed
    by a seaman becomes “only horseplay.” A seaman’s negligence,
    drunkenness, fighting, or horseplay are routinely overlooked with
    ’’ appropriate remarks about “the classic predisposition of sailors
    ashore.” One Court awarded maintenance and cure to a seaman on
    shore leave in Yugoslavia who suffered a broken leg in jumping from
    the second story window of a brothel following a dispute over
    financial arrangements. Only willful misconduct of the seaman will
    forfeit his rights to maintenance and cure.
    A seaman is entitled to wages up to the end of the voyage or
    to the end of his articles, even though unable to work. If his
    injury results from an unseaworthy condition of a vessel, he has a
    right of action for liability without fault against the vessel and
    her owner under the general maritime law. If his injury results
    from negligence of his employer, the seaman has a right of action
    against his employer under the Jones Act. In such an action, the
    employer will be held fully responsible if its negligence,
    howsoever slight, contributed to the cause of the seaman’s injury.
    The shipowner may even be held responsible for maintenance and
    cure for a preexisting illness, so long as the the sailor did not
    2 0
    C
    knowingly conceal his condition at the time of employment. In
    avoiding any finding of knowing concealment, the Courts have
    endowed seamen with what has come to be called "an invincible
    ignorance."
    More next week on The Admiralty Docket. Until then, remember
    your rights and responsibilities may change as you approach the
    shore and may God Almighty grant you pleasant sailing.
8

Yup, what he said

9

I found the answer rather easily. As a father and as an employer. As someone who had to deal with a crew after they accidentally killed a young shipmate while engaging in shoreside horseplay. As someone who has seen one shipmate break a whiskey bottle over the head of another. PS - It doesn’t play out like in the Western movies.

Here the attacker was a supervisor, the attacked was in his charge. There was prior no physical prevocation, but words had been exchanged over time, tensions building. Witness confirmations.

The attacker summarily failed in a big way in his duty to be a responsible supervisor. He failed in a big way to be a team-member looking out for his shipmates and the success of the adventure we are paying to have completed safely and on time. These failings are in my mind, almost as bad as attacking a shipmate.

Long standing declared policies of owners, managers and the flag state made discharging this person a matter of the time needed to have the captain fill out the papers, rounding up the attacker along with his belongings and transporting same to the airport. A subsequent check of his accommodation found numerous empty liquor bottles.

Another “victim” of the bottle. No job, his “performance” clearly noted at ship managers and maritime employment agent. Might as well hang it up. What a wanker.

Fortunately the attacked crew member appears okay after this “horseplay.” I don’t want to see any more heartbreak caused by things that can be avoided - like this type stupidity or preventable shipboard accident. We pay supervisors to supervise and act accordingly. We build, maintain and operate ships to be safe and complete our work as timely and economically as possible. And this “safe” includes crew.

And people wonder why they aren’t allowed to go up the road when in port. The stupidity of those (few) that cannot handle themselves and stop looking out for those whose lives depend on them is part of the reason why.

10

Policy with the company I work for is for the first offence all parties get a written warning. Next time they are fired.
I had a situation a few years back when we were laying cable off Hong Kong. We were back in port taking on provisions and the crew were going ashore after work at the end of each day. A couple of them got into a disagreement which they unfortunately brought back to the ship.
I got called to one of the crew cabins late that particular evening because of a fight. Bearing in mind all of them were on a warning already because of an earlier scuffle. This time one guy punched up another (again) so I sacked both and signed them off immediately. The agent came on board at midnight and sent both to separate hotels. Personally I will not tolerate fighting between the crew as it always developes into a worse situation later on and once at sea it becomes a nightmare to get them off and home.

11

Once your out of the gate, either onto richmond terrace or wherever, the office could care less. And if your dumb enough to run your mouth, and walk outside, take your beating like a man and go back to the boat. Not to defend 1 person attacking another, but to many people hide behind policys and talk shit. We are all big boys, and should act as such, but dont abuse someone, and think policy or admiralty law is going to save you. “Half of all drowning victims where pissing over the side, the other half where pushed”

12

We had two crew members get into a fight one night after going up the street for Ice Cream (Ya Right). One was at a pay phone and the the other waited and jumped him. There had been a disagreement over a Female in the bar (opps did I say that). We got them separated and calmed down. The fun started when we found out we were heading back to our companies dock next. It was a pain in the ass to make sure that no one shoreside got a look at these two. The funniest thing is those two ended up as really good friends. We all took a chance in saving their jobs as they both could have been fired but we (all of the officers and crew) decided to go the route of saving their jobs and keeping them on the vessel. Just need to add that these two were not the best of employees but they were good at their jobs (ABT) and we all thought they deserved a break and another chance. They were both gone from the company within the next couple of months, for other reasons and were on a different rig that the time.

This was back in 1990 and a lot of things have changed since then. Now a days with how everything we do is under a microscope they would be fired as if we covered it up we (the Officers) would be fired.

13

[QUOTE=Tugs;87697]We had two crew members get into a fight one night after going up the street for Ice Cream (Ya Right). One was at a pay phone and the the other waited and jumped him. There had been a disagreement over a Female in the bar (opps did I say that). We got them separated and calmed down. The fun started when we found out we were heading back to our companies dock next. It was a pain in the ass to make sure that no one shoreside got a look at these two. The funniest thing is those two ended up as really good friends. We all took a chance in saving their jobs as they both could have been fired but we (all of the officers and crew) decided to go the route of saving their jobs and keeping them on the vessel. Just need to add that these two were not the best of employees but they were good at their jobs (ABT) and we all thought they deserved a break and another chance. They were both gone from the company within the next couple of months, for other reasons and were on a different rig that the time.

This was back in 1990 and a lot of things have changed since then. Now a days with how everything we do is under a microscope they would be fired as if we covered it up we (the Officers) would be fired.[/QUOTE]

That’s the problem. The guys mentioned in my last post had been at it on and off for some time and ended up (the night they were sent off) pulling knives so I had no choice. Like the guys you mentioned, these 2 were excellent seamen and it was a pity to lose them. Always the case. I heard they met up at HK airport and continued to have a go there and nearly got arrested. Some people never learn.

14

If you fight on company time you should be terminated.

15

[QUOTE=AHTS Master;87717]If you fight on company time you should be terminated.[/QUOTE]

Oh, if that only included verbal backstabbing.
There was a time when you took it to shore, settled it there and nothing was said. Now things are more politically correct but more immoral to my way of thinking.

16

[QUOTE=tengineer;87749]Oh, if that only included verbal backstabbing.
There was a time when you took it to shore, settled it there and nothing was said. Now things are more politically correct but more immoral to my way of thinking.[/QUOTE]

I worked in the days when you took it to the beach but now I abide by the new rules.

17

poor
and friendless and apt to acquire habits of gross indulgence,
carelessness and improvidence."

Love that description of seamen

18

I think things worked better when two men could go “up the hill” and settle their differences. Now we’re left with cowardly backstabbing, whinning, complaining and underhanded crewmembers with no recourse to handle them. Try firing someone these days and see how much management backs your professional decision versus fear of a lawsuit.

19

Zero tolerance. If you choose not to act, you can be held liable if the behavior escalates. Part of being a Captain is being that bastard who will make life more miserable than working with someone you despise.

20

What is that quote from seadog posted? I know Cooper is a maritime lawyer, did he actually say that during a proceeding?