Foreigners is also watching US politics

“The biggest ballot tampering scandal in recent memory was in connection with the 2018 congressional election in North Carolina’s 9th congressional district. There, a GOP political operative ran an operation that collected absentee ballots from voters and [tampered])[ with] those ballots. This led to the North Carolina Board of Elections [ordering] a new congressional election in the district. Ballot collection is [illegal]in North Carolina. Indeed, ballot tampering scandals are not more common in states that allow ballot collection.” Block quote from:

Do they think that way that because it will allow them to vote in states that use a DL as ID to vote?
Why not just let undocumented immigrants become documented ( what does that actually mean) if they are happy to give them a license as giving a license is certainly a gov document I would have thought?

Right before i need to click and admit to breaking the law on the California online registration I can get past these…

New voters may have to show a form of identification or proof of residency the first time they vote, if a driver license or SSN was not provided when registering.

California driver license or California identification card number

  • I do not have a California driver license or California identification card.*

Social security number (last 4 numbers)

  • I do not have a social security number.*

Hence I can skip those…
Not sure what happens on the next page?

So when I go to a polling booth I pull out my ‘some form of identification’ and I vote?

From the times that I remember I had something similar to “tax ID/social security” numbers in Mexico, Brasil, Trinidad & Tobago & South Korea. I had work visas for a lot more places but I only recall having a tax ID/social security number in these countries. I do have a Mexican driver’s license. Although I’m well documented in all those places I can’t vote in their elections, send my kids to their public schools (except Mexico) or use their social safety net programs. Sometimes my visas would expire & I would be illegal but still documented. I think a lot of moderates & conservatives are fearful of allowing undocumented/illegal immigrants to have DL’s because some far far leftists want to allow undocumented/illegal immigrants to vote & they fear it is a step in the wrong direction. Myself, I think the benefits outweigh the risks.

I can browse the net & find tons of right of center media outlets that shows instances of voter fraud & irregularities & you can do the same & find tons of left of center media outlets that says it never happens. But what’s the point? I know in the history of the world there has been voter fraud. I know it goes on today & will in the future. No matter how many links you show me I know people are rotten & will continue to be so. In many places a person has to show an ID to buy smokes, alcohol, aerosol spray cans, fertilizer, cold medicines, a gun, ammo, etc. etc. Pretending it’s some big civil rights violation to ask a person to confirm who they are before they vote is asinine. I don’t even think it’s worth debating. Countries all over the planet do it. It only makes sense to me. I don’t live in some fantasy where I think Americans have evolved to some superior level where everyone is above voter fraud.

BTW, I have a relative who is of mixed race get out of prison with no forms of ID except for his prison discharge papers & he managed to get a duplicate state ID from his prior picture & thumb print. If we can put a man on the moon we can get dumb, old, poor & minorities ID’s. If liberals just spent a fraction of the energy they used fighting against votes ID’s on actually getting IDs for people who needed them this would be a non issue. I don’t think I every met anyone who didn’t have an ID? If I did, I would probably try to help them get one so they can do all the other important stuff in life besides voting.

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In a discussion centered on legal rights, it actually means nothing. It is a euphemism for illegal alien, a legal term in US immigration law. It’s been introduced into the narrative by a left leaning press to muddle the issue. It suggests an immigrant who misplaced his documents as opposed to someone whose presence in the country is the result of their breaking the law.
We claim to be a nation of laws. We have more people in jails per capita than every other country in the world to prove it. An individual in the US doesn’t get to decide which laws he wants to comply with and which ones he gets to ignore, no matter where he was born.

Well, Actually…

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This headline is a perfect example of the kind of sleazy click bait journalism we’ve come to expect. It misleads the reader until the body clarifies that Cruz got the haircut after the hairdresser legally reopened.

In any case, there is plenty of evidence that as part of the political ruling class, senators and congressmen consider themselves above the law.

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The point of that article is that Cruz didn’t pick that particular salon at random.

From the article:

“Just got my hair cut for first time in 3 months at Salon ALa Mode to support Shelley Luther, who was wrongly imprisoned when she refused to apologize for trying to earn a living,” Cruz tweeted.

The article doesn’t support what everyone knows, that the law does not in fact treat the rich and poor equally but I don’ t see how it’s sleazy click bait.

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I don’t question that Cruz’s pick wasn’t at random, nor the fact that the governor intervened on behalf of the salon owner. I realize I may not be typical but I read a lot, everyday, and I go over a lot of material by speed reading. When something piques my interest I slow down reread the headline and read the body. This is how the headline pops up at first swipe: Ted Cruz Texas salon jail .
It turns out to be an unimportant detail in Cruz’s daily routine. Why is this considered news? Ted Cruz gets a haircut. Big deal. The article is filler on which to piggyback commercial ads for unrelated products, ie, click bait.
Fittingly, JamesBrown produced it as a suggestion that Cruz broke the law by getting a hair cut. “Well, Actually…”

No, the point of the story being shared in this discussion of voter ID laws, immigrants and respect for law and order is that the salon owner broke the law, cheerfully, gleefully, and was celebrated by people charged with upholding law and order. Voter fraud issues to be solved by mandatory ID are low impact problems but the point advocates make, as have been made in this thread, is that the law is the law and we follow the law. But this pandemic has the party advocating on those lines cheering on blatant civic disobedience (vice the remedy of courts to prevent overreach) at a time when civic responsibility should be emphasized.


My original post was in response to a question about the term undocumented immigrant. You used it as a springboard to point fingers at one of your very own boogey men. Your seem to derive great pleasure from sharing your obsession with party politics. Good for you.

With regards to voter ID here’s a article from FOX news.

Several states adopted new laws last year requiring that people show a photo ID when they come to vote even though the kind of election fraud that the laws are intended to stamp out is rare.

Even supporters of the new laws are hard pressed to come up with large numbers of cases in which someone tried to vote under a false identify.

There’s no real incentive to vote with a false ID. Too high risk / low reward. Only gain one vote.

Same reason potato farmers don’t need to hire armed guards to guard potato fields. It can be shown that it’s possible to steal potatoes in theory but in practice it doesn’t happen enough to make counter measures worthwhile.


Foreigners are also reading our Editorials like this one which looks back over the Trump Presdency:

Trumpocalypse review: David Frum bushwhacks a new axis of evil

I don’t have a problem producing ID if there is a legitimate reason. I don’t understand why it’s such a political hot potato or such an onerous burden for some people. If only US citizens are a allowed to vote and I want to vote, I don’t have a problem producing proof of citizenship. Just like if I want to drive a car, I don’t have a problem producing a DL to a legitimate inquiry.
Following your logic, cases of people driving without DLs are rare so we should drop the requirement.

That’s not exactly following his logic. Using driving without licenses as an example:

According to a study conducted by AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, drivers without a valid license are responsible for 20 percent of all automobile accidents .

One in five is a non-trivial relationship, unlike voter ID impacts on elections. Recommend Continue enforcement.

Yeah, threw it out there but didn’t expect it to float for very long…however, I stand by the rest of my post

This whole issue is nothing more than Trump and his cult members laying the foundation for a battle to nullify an election where he loses by a slim count. He knows he is probably going to lose and may either end up in prison or at the very least exposed and humiliated as a fraud. He will take the country down with him before he lets that happen.


Thread is getting a bit long in the tooth. Trump vs Anti-Trump. I can see this in the media everyday. I will support the candidate that lies the least and will greedily vote who helps my pocketbook the most. Who will that be? No fucking idea.

I think most people have a pretty good idea out of the two presumptive candidates who lies the least. But that aside I think the thread hasn’t become Trump v Anti-Trump, though it can easily devolve to a partisan attitude and the debate has cover the voter ID problem in the usual way. One side correctly notes that the impact of multiple inquiries shows voter fraud not a significant problem, the other chasing the boogeymen they fear in illegal immigrant voters and principles of law and order, and anecdotal evidence of crimes. We have finite government resources so where do we put the money? The problems that matter or the problems that don’t? But Law and Order! Principles! Ok, but better have your side uniform on that on all issues if that’s the Principle.

And of course, it’s wrong to drove without a valid license, also a crime, and so is voter fraud. Don’t do either.

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