Should all seafarers be paid the same regardless of nationality, or country of residence?:
The Filipinos I sailed with lived very well in their communities. The wife of an electrician was very quick to point out that she didn’t work and didn’t have to. Filipino captains didn’t generally mow their yard or do any other jobs. A Indian chief engineer had no tools at home and if he needed a picture hung the housekeeper arranged it. An Ukrainian chief officer earned twice what his father earned as CEO of a ship yard.
Oh, and I paid tax.
All that would be achieved is Europeans would be paid SE Asian wages.
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Life in Europe and North America is much , much more expensive, it’s a fact.
But more serious argument is who will hire Filipino, Indian or Malaysian nationals if they have to pay them same salary like they pay German , Italians or Brits?
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It is really a nonsensical argument. All pay is relative. If Chinese factory workers were paid EU or US wages your iPhone would cost $5,000. I have worked with many Filipino, Eastern European, Indian and other nationalities. They all made more money than they could in their home countries. I also was at times responsible for coordinating their hiring. The vast majority were excellent mariners but the crewing agencies they had to go thru were usurious. It was almost impossible to hire directly and the crewing agencies took entirely too much of the guys pay just to get them a job, some worked months just to pay the agency. I blame the HR departments of the shipping companies. Why they don’t recruit directly? Laziness and kickbacks.
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Agree, but “in an ideal world” shouldn’t wages be dependent on the position held and ability to do the job, not on nationality, or residency?
Or do you means that a European or North American seafarers living in a low cost country should be paid according to living cost in his/her country of residency?
You mean that IPhone is not an American product? 
Who could have guessed?
It doesn’t say so anywhere in the advertisements from Apple. 
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“do you means that a European or North American seafarers living in a low cost country should be paid according to living cost in his/her country of residency?”
North Americans and Europeans residing in Filipins, Indonesia or Ukraine still pay North American or European taxes. Filipinos and Ukrainians don’t.
Now ask yourself a question, why would German company hire Indonesian oiler and get involved in all that international topsy-turvy with passports, work permits, flights , language barriers, etc if it has to pay him same salary like local guy from Hamburg?
Bottom line, make equal pay for everyone and next day people from underdeveloped countries will not be able to find a job on western ships.
No.
Can not find this term in Wiki . Any suggestions.?
Iphone pro 16 price in USA , Europe , Pakistan , PH, UKR, Rus, Indonesia or other under, under, under …whatever, is the same & cheapest Nissan Frontier starts with 33 K world wide in "under " & “not under” countries not to mention 2024 Bronco Raptor at 90 K usd .
Any clues why?
How about theory, that if in Your Marxists ideal world
then it is highly unlikely that :
but extremely likely and almost certain that :
…next day people from highly developed countries will not be able to find a job on western ships and will be found only in Jurassic Park exhibition as most bizarre spieces as no other but greedy and opportunistic owners/employers from their developed countries will make sure of that .
Western ships??? - is this cathegory still valid as last time I checked FOC were the king. And remind me pls where FOC concept was spawned and cultivated first as last time I checked it was in a country where free trade and competition is the popular slogan but it seems to me it does not “walk the talk” with " do as we say but not as we do" excuse thinking all around are blind fools.
Addendum 06.11.24
Dr. Bugge .
Elections are finished so i think it’ s time to open the cartoon thread AGAIN.
So by that logic, a janitor in Manhattan and a Janitor in Kolkata should be paid the same wage?
In an “ideal” world these two cities and their nations would have similar economic conditions and regulatory framework. We don’t live in a post-scarcity utopia, ruled by one planetary government.
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Even if they win the case companies will find a way around it. They will use shell companies based in shady tax havens to get around it. Big maritime companies can afford expensive lawyers and accountants who can find ways of beating the system.
A lot of European seafarers and offshore workers live in low cost places like Thailand, so they get the double benefit of big wages and low living costs. Maybe they should get Thai wages.
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A lot of British seafarers residing in Asia pay no taxes.
That’s not technically correct, they do pay income tax, but they get all the income tax they pay refunded to them, so ultimately pay no tax.
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No that is not the point.
If the janitor in Kolkata moved to Manhattan and did the same job, should he be paid “Manhattan wages”, because he does the same job and have the same living expenses as any other janitors in Manhattan?
Reversibly; if the Manhattan janitor moved to Kolkata, should he still be paid “Manhattan wages” just because of his nationality?
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I enjoy your stories from your long career sailing around southeast Asia during the 50’s to the 90’s. You got good stories. While reading them I picture you as many Norwegians that I have worked with. Pale white skin, flushed with red, too tall, probably a little too thin but you’re wearing a cream colored, sweat drenched, searsucker suit with a straw hat with about twenty, 5 ft tall pajama wearing brown skinned natives hopping at your every command. But now since that is long behind you & you’re retired comfortably in Northern Europe you start to ponder equal wages for all knowing plane good & well you probably made 5x all of your assistants saleries combined? Keep thinking about the “what if’s” & “an idea world” but no thank you. I’m not interested in averaging down yet but maybe I’ll consider it for the next generation after I gets mine.
And who is weird dude here 
?
Dr,Bugge with his opinion reminds me a little of the former CEO of the vessel’s shipmanager, Wallem, Frank Coles, who has been milking without mercy east european, indian, ph and other cheap potatoes on the market paying the meagre wages all his CEO life and then, when He retired travelling on his private yacht around the world enjoing his retirement suddenly figured to become an ardent seafarers human rights activist bemoaning the misery of cheap labour FOC market .
Have always wondered why this morphing from system huge beneficiary into keyboard human rights warrior and activist have not manifested itself sooner.
Yes I sailed on ships in S.E.Asia and the South Pacific in the late 1960s to 1973.
Yes I did get paid a lot more than the local crews. In fact on a ship with 22 officers and crews I, as Master, probably cost more than the entire crew together (Mixed Singaporean & Indonesian)
PS> I like to think that was because I also contributed more as well.
The rest of your description have to stand for your own experience with Norwegians in the tropics.
As you say that was over 50 years ago and things have changed since then.
Why should somebody today be paid more for doing the same job, just because they hold an European, American or whatever passport, if they work on the same type of ships? (especially if they also live in the same country)
I stopped believing that one nationality were somehow “better seamen” than any other nationalities, just because of the colour of their passport, their skin, or their religion.
Any accident, incident, or other statistics bearing out such belief?
FYI, thats how we all feel when working in 3rd world countries so I guess all of us privileged westerners are the same after all? Except the salaries of junior officers have increased since your time & its no longer common for the Masters or CE’s salary to match that of a complete crew of 22 from my limited experiences. You guys could get really cheap labor back then.
I worked with a pair of Scana Volda (Norwegian) reduction gears in South America for 4.5 yrs that were under warranty that had some issues. The techs who would visited us were from Norway of course & got paid Norwegian wages. Those techs didn’t have favorable opinions of the locals nor did they like the locals from Africa or Asia either. Could the corporate managers back in Norway find locals in South America, Africa or Asia to do the same job for the same salaries of the Norwegian techs? Maybe, probably? But would the Scana Volda folks trust those foreigners to work at the same level & trust them to keep the integrity & best interests of Scana Volda in mind 24/7? Absolutely not. That Norwegian company wanted Norwegian overseers & were willing to pay top dollar to have it. Same reason you were paid more than a 22 man crew back in your younger years. It’s why my American employers have always paid me more while working overseas with foreign crews. People will look out for their best interests, investors included. It gets tricky when governments try to dictate free market investors best interests. It usually fails, then sometimes the over reaching government tries to run the business themselves then it all goes to hell.
In that past a lot of Norwegian ship operators have had full Norwegian crews on their offshore vessels operating in the Norwegian offshore sector, but their vessels working in the British offshore sector have had the top 2 or 4 ranks as Norwegian but everyone else as Filipino or Eastern European on low wages.
A court case like this could potentially affect them. Questions might be asked why they employ a Norwegian on high wages in the Norwegian sector but a Filipino on low wages in the UK sector.
Some Norwegian vessel operators seem to really dislike hiring British seafarers for their ships working in the British sector.
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I have also been on the other side. In 1970 I did work for an American “Bayou company”. I was paid US$ 1k/mth, as “navigator” while the skippers were paid US$ 1.6k just because they were US citizen. (Boats were US-flag, below 300 GRT)
My job was to “pilot” boats that was going on “long” voyages, like from Singapore to rigs in the Gulf of Thailand, South China Sea, the Java Sea etc.
Or bring boats to/from Balikpapan, Kaltim, were they operated locally.
PS> No “platform jumping” possible.
In 1974-75 I started as freelance MWS, doing rig inspections and rig moves. Most of the rigs were American built, owned and operated, with mostly Americans in Sr. positions, on board and ashore.
It was common that Americans were paid more than their European or Australian/NZ colleagues, doing the same job. (Locals did the “menial tasks”, like roughneck, Roustabout, Greasers etc,)
In 1978 I joined Atwood Oceanics Inc. as Captain on a drillship under Panama flag.
The permanent crew consisted of 19 different nationalities, (incl. one American)
There the rule was “equal pay for equal job”, regardless of nationality.
(We took local crews for the “menial jobs” in the country we operated).
I was on that ship until she was sold, in 1980. (Plus mobilization to and anchoring off Andaman Islands for the new owner)
BTW; Some years later Atwood brought into Indonesia a J/U rig that had been working in the Middle east and had Indonesian Drillers on same pay as any other Drillers in Atwood.
That did not go down well with other drilling contractors, nor with Indonesian authorities. Atwood ended up paying them Indonesian wages in Indonesia and topping it up into their bank accounts in Singapore.
Similarly in the early1990s; an Ass. Electrician on an Atwood rig working at Bombay Highs, India, was promoted to Chief Electrician and paid accordingly. This was not approved by Indian Authorities.
This time the solution was different: the Electrician and his family moved to the US, he continued working on the rig in India, now as an expat, travelling back and forward on a 28/28 schedule, like the rest of the expat crews.
The moral of the story; “where there is a will there is a way”.
Scana Volda is now now part of Brunvoll AS (since 2016):
“Brunvoll in Molde buys Scana Volda. The change of ownership is well received among the employees”.
Recognize any of your travelling repairmen among these?:
The employees at Scana Volda gathered for a general meeting on Tuesday afternoon. At the front on the left is Roald HĂĄvik, and on the right, Henning Brautaset. Photo: Svein Aam
Source: https://www.smp.no/naeringsliv/i/lzx1ny/scana-volda-passar-brunvoll-som-hand-i-hanske
It was a small company, but with a worldwide market for it’s products.
They also have a long history;
Scana Volda celebrates 100 years. 04/07/2013
The company, formerly Volda Mekaniske Verksted, was established in 1913 in Volda, Norway, and was taken over by the Scana group in 1998. Today Scana Volda is a recognised supplier of propeller systems to the international market.
Source: Scana Volda celebrates 100 years | News | World Fishing
They relied upon agents for sale around the world, but had their own staff for after sale service, just like most other small companies in the maritime equipment business.
They also have external service companies in major markets: