Yes. Thanks for illustrating why the answer to your earlier question is no.
OK, but what about the second question of my post?
Yes or No?
Many Norwegian owned offshore vessels are NIS registered.
Until fairly recently NIS registered vessels could not operate in the Norwegian sector, or in Norwegian coastal trade, while foreign flagged vessels could.
PS> Most Norwegian owned and operated vessels working in the British sector of the North Sea are NIS (or IOM, Gib. etc.) registered.
NOR registered vessels has mostly Norwegian crews , but also some foreigners, (some residing in Norway)
Wages and conditions are set by annual or bi-annual bargaining between unions and the Shipowner Organization. They are the same regardless of who is the owner/operator of the vessel, or nationality of the crew member.
On NIS vessels there are different scale of pay from NOR registered ships, but also based on collective bargaining by unions:
I don’t know if that is true, since I have not had much to do with offshore vessels in the North Sea.
There used to be quite a few British officers working on Norwegian owned vessels before all this with NIS/NOR and FOC ships.
Especially on Jebsen ships, since they operated both British and Norwegian registered ships in European trade in the 1960s and 70s.
PS> I sailed with some Aussies on Norwegian ships trading in the South Pacific and the Aussie coast .
Pretty common in the Offshore. I did a weeks course on Norwegian law for masters before taking command.
The only reason an American gets paid higher wages than Filipinos is because the vessels that how Americans are legally required to. That’s the equivalent of moving to Manhattan and working there as a janitor.
Now if an American wants to take a job on an FOC ship they would have to accept the Filipino level pay because they’re “moving to Manila and working there as a janitor.”
So then we agree; An American working on FOC ships of same type as a Filipino in the same position, SHOULD be paid the same and have the same working conditions.
PS> That the American doesn’t WANT to work on FOC ships is beside the point.
Likewise, a Filipino working on a US-flag ship SHOULD be paid US wages and have the same condition as an American in the same position.
PS> That the Filipino will not be able to work on a US-flag ship (at least not hold an officer position), is beside the point.
Or at least that would be the case “in an IDEAL world”. Unfortunately the world is NOT ideal.
That is what the article linked to in the OP was all about, only the nationalities in question were Indonesian and Filipino.
They already are.
They already are.
I didn’t read the article, I was responding to your questions. Your questions had no such caveats.
Any proof of this?
Maybe you should read it before making bombastic statements.
I haven’t made any statements about the article, as I already explained to you.
Of which?
They are and there will be more, much more.
See :
WATCH An American Ship Get Locked Down In China
Then Dr.Sal video clip :
Restricted to Ship: American Mariners in China - Interview with Crewmember on Board Locked Down Ship
and study the contents of :
Restricted to ship episodes.
Elec and the ratings were PH.
If a Filipino can get the correct visa and work permit to work in the USA on a ship or any other job, it would be highly illegal to pay them less just because of their ethnic background.
There sort-of are ways around this. If a job is dirty enough and hard enough, say being a a crab picker, Americans just won’t do it and you can hire either legal or illegal aliens to do it at what are low wages for Americans but a lot for them.
In the IT world the “H1B” visa is a way to get foreigners in at low wages and it is much despised by the American IT community. The law says to pay them the prevailing wage, but misses the point the prevailing wage would be much higher if they weren’t there. They get sent home if they lose their jobs too, so they are not free to look elsewhere for more pay.
There are unintended side effects of the one-world-government-equal-pay-for-all idea too. Long ago in school we read a short story about a British family living in Burma in the old empire days. The daughter is highly upset to find out how little the staff are paid and prevails upon her father to pay them UK wages. They are suddenly the richest people in their village by far and totally disrupt the local economy and create a lot of hardships for everyone else.
- kind of like working in Hawaii where everyone but you is on vacation and spending money like water. The economy is not designed for anyone to live there.
I was on a flight years ago with an IT worker going for a job interview. He had been employed by Disney World in Orlando but they were all being replace by cheaper H1B workers. He was offered 6 months severance pay IF he trained his replacement to Disney’s satisfaction.
I was involved with a contract job in the Caribbean in the tourism business. We checked around and initially paid our workers the prevailing wage. After we had been there awhile we realized they could barely survive on that wage so we told them we would increase it by 50%. Like from $20/day to $30/day. We were immediately called to a meeting with the local oligarchs who told us that if we did that it would upset their economy and they would not sell us provisions or mechanical supplies. We had to stop the raise. We got around it later with a bonus system.
The point of this is without regulation greed will always over rule fairness even when fairness costs relatively little.
That being said at the last of my career I would rather hire a Filipino at US wages than an American for any job requiring physical labor and basic mechanical knowledge such as oiler. Simple economics, got more for the money as the Filipinos had been to trade school and expected to work hard. YMMV
On a Norwegian flag Seismic vessel the Filipino Electronics Officer was paid Norwegian wages and conditions, and he was worth it, He lived in the Phillipines and the problem he had was the number of people hanging off his tit.
I’ve worked with some Filipino guys who ended up on really high wages, some of them didn’t stay at sea for that long after getting high wages.
They earned enough money to start some businesses in the Philippines that made them enough money so they didn’t have to work at sea anymore.
A lot of Filipinos don’t really want to work at sea, but have to because the money is a lot more than they can get at home. They just stay at sea long enough to earn enough money to buy businesses that will pay them enough to not have to go to sea.
Many US mariners hope to do the same, it just costs more in the USA .But many do start successful businesses.
The local oligarchs were not 100% wrong, if you feed money into a closed economy like an island it can drive prices up for everyone and make much of the population worse off if they are not making the bigger bucks.
Also they are cheap bastards that don’t want to pay their guys more!
People from rich countries generally go to sea because they want to go to sea. Most people who go to sea could easily get a well paying job ashore doing something else.
People from poor countries generally go to sea because they have to go to sea, there are no jobs that could pay anything near to what they would get working at sea.
Ethnic “PH” with a US passport or Green card, or Pinoys hired from a crewing agent in Manila?
To answer your question I will have to view carefully all the video clips again and I have no time to do it now. Sorry.