Which docking pilots have docked your ship lately? Aren’t you on an oil field boat? Since you could probably count the ports with docking pilots on one hand, you probably won’t have any issues no mater who is maneuvering your ship to the dock.
Not for a number of years now.
You really think that’s all there are? I expect I could think of that many off the top of my head.
Just about every major port on the east coast, north of savannah. Docking Masters/pilots are everywhere on the eastern seaboard.
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For what it’s worth, since it was my knowledge of piloting being confined to the Columbia River that got me started on this topic, piloting on the Columbia is apportioned by the state statute, to (only) two groups, both chartered and regulated by the Pilots Commission (under the State PUC): the Columbia River Bar Pilots from the Bar approaches to Astoria harbor just above the bridge, and the Columbia River Pilots the Columbia above the bridge and Willamette Rivers “to the heads of navigation” (of each). So your river pilot is your docking pilot. (Sorry if the next to last sentence didn’t make sense at first! A whole line got dropped in the upload it appears…edited back in)
Are you a Maritime Pilot now? Curious, have you ever been one? I’m asking because your reply seems to indicate that you keep up with this sort of thing. So if you disagree with me (which is entirely your perogative), I’d like to learn how it is I am wrong and therefore, in future comments I post here, I’ll know I’m making a factual statement, not just guessing. So I would enjoy the opportunity to learn from you if you have substantive and relevant detailed info to substantiate your claim and underscore how wrong I was.
Just to be fair to “river pilots” out there and all the other pilots working in the USA that may not be “river pilots” but working in Harbors like me and not on a “river” as you seem to be collectively labeling all of us as…many of the Maritime Pilots working in the industry today have a long career working on tugs. In fact, I personally know many pilots who NEVER sailed deep-sea and sailed their ENTIRE career in the towing industry. They moved into piloting jobs in certain groups around the country where having a deep sea license is NOT a necessity if you can document an extensive career aboard tugs and tows. Typically you had to have sailed aboard a tug as a Master for a minimum number of years. Some states specify that that time must have been aboard tugs engaged in “ship assists.”
I’m looking forward to your response.
BTW…I’m one of those Pilots that sailed deep-sea aboard ships manned by AMO for a company based in NYC, on their vessels all over the world.
On my time off at home here in Hawaii, I sailed inter-island aboard tugs towing barges for Sause Bros for several years. The runs here are relatively short, 8-10 hours typically, long runs maybe 30 hours apart. Tug crews here are jack-knifing alongside a barge twice a day typically and making and breaking tows constantly, like every other day.
Sadly, I’m sure I likely fall into that category of Pilots you don’t trust, eh? But I look forward to your expounding on that, too.
The ‘system’ we are discussing is about providing a service, based on the concept of ensuring safety and efficiency. It isn’t relative whether or not it is performed by a gov’t employee or a private sector business. Its the same concept in my example.
But for the sake of argument, lets go with your point. The same system exist in Canada and Europe and most other countries around the world. So what is the difference to you?
You might wish to walk that back a little, unless you have first hand knowledge of what it takes to get to where I and about 1,600 other individuals around the country are today. You OBVIOUSLY have absolutely no idea of the the time and commitment and dedication it took to just get to that point in time where most state pilots are even qualified to submit an application to take the test to get into the training program. That…and the personal expense it cost me for many years of catching rides with the state pilots, on my own time off. It took me eight years getting all the required Federal 1st Class Pilotage Endorsements on my license from the USCG, to just get to the point where I was able to (barely) be able to apply and submit my application to sit for an exam. And I was one of those guys that worked my a*s off to make the deadline. I waited months for a license to be issued and finally start with the local Pilots. Then three more years in a training program.
I know what surgeons have to go thru, given all their years of training, residency, certification, licensing and the whole nine yards. I also know what some of them earn (deservedly so) in income.
I would caution you to be careful about how you categorize maritime pilots collectively and “what it takes” to get to this level in our industry. Clearly, you are stating an opinion (your right to do so) that is based largely on very poor information. From where or how you gathered it, I have no idea.
No…its NOT true. Where did you get that from??? Bro, where did you learn all this stuff from???
You seem to be posting commentary on something you have little first hand knowledge of. Pilots here in Hawaii are routinely going aboard US Flag ships daily. We are unique in that we probably handle more US flag ships in a year than any other group in the USA. Most are in the Jones Act trade (obviously), while a few are continuing on foreign voyages.
For the record, we are one group of Pilots licensed by the State of Hawaii. We handle ALL vessel traffic here in seven ports on 4 islands. We all have USCG licenses as Master Unlimited, All Oceans, with First Class Pilot Endorsements for seven commercial harbors around the State. The licensing is required by our State regulator, not a determination of the Pilot group. We all have a “Port Pilot License” issued by the State of Hawaii.
You cannot work as a Pilot in this state unless you are qualified to be a part of the Central Dispatching System, which came about back in the days when we had real “competitive pilotage” here, many years ago.
You may be thinking of or aware of the ONE US Flag cruise ship that transits between the island, owned and operated by NCLA that does NOT take a Pilot. They don’t need (or want) to. Their American Officers are licensed in accordance with USCG regs and are legal to operate without our services. In fact, most US Flag ships that are engaged in domestic trade are not REQUIRED TO if there is an Officer aboard who has a valid First Class Pilot endorsement on his license for the port that they are transiting.
But none do. And wisely so.
Actually, kinda sound like you are sh*tting on us. Thats my impression. Here I am posting info on this board so guys like you might actually learn something about our part of the industry. But you are arguing back at me with your responses. Wow? Really? I don’t think you want to be a Pilot at all. At least it doesn’t sound like it.
You’re 30 years old? Depending on where you (want to) live and work, there’s still time to start the process. But you have a long way to go, in some places. But only if you really want to grind it out.
I spend a LOT of time mentoring younger people in this industry as they approach me with the desire to be a Pilot (anywhere, not just here). Its a long road. Its hard work. And it’s getting very competitive, contrary to popular opinion. The days of nepotism are quickly fading away. But few have it in them to really do the work intakes to get here, standing in my shoes.
You’re welcome to ask all the “obtuse” questions you want. And I’m happy to help in your education of what this job is really like. I love what I do. I take people with me on rides all the time. i attempt to champion what this job is really about and what we do.
We serve the public’s interest. Most people…even in our own maritime industry…really have no idea what it is that we do. Go google various websites of Pilot groups around the USA. start with Columbia River Bar, San Francisco, State Pilots of Florida…they all have top notch pics and videos of Pilots at work. It’s a start.
But thats only if you genuinely have an interest in learning what the job truly entails.
Or if they take a federal pilot.
Sorry, that’s left over from where I worked before where the state pilot ran the river, then turned it over to a docking pilot to put it alongside. It was easier to refer to them as river pilots colloquially.
No and no.
I do. I used to work ship assist on the East coast, where most ports have separate docking pilots that come up off the tugs.
It obviously works since we don’t hear about accidents often, and maybe in ports where there’s no appreciable river is easier to get them trained and highly experienced. (After an 8-10 hour transit up river they wouldn’t then be docking a vessel so it would take a lot longer to build repetitions docking.)
As stated previously in this thread, in many ports that’s ZERO time, commitment, and dedication. Just because you work for one of the good ones doesn’t mean that’s how they all are, or even most.
So please tell us… what ports require zero time, commitment, and dedication to be a Pilot?
51.1 Sandy Hook pilot apprentices.
(c) Qualifications of applicants for apprenticeship.
(1) A person seeking to be registered with the board as an apprentice shall present satisfactory evidence, at the time of the application, that he or she:
(i) is at least 18 years of age and is not more than 27 years of age no later than April 15 of the year the application is filed;
(ii) is of good moral character as evidenced through at least two written references provided by the applicant and background checks as may be directed by the board;
(iii) is in good physical health and at a minimum meets all of the medical and hearing requirements required of the holder of a First Class Federal Pilots’ license without waiver and has passed a chemical drug test for dangerous drugs as set forth in the U.S. Department of Transportation’s 5 Panel Drug Test;
(iv) has a minimum uncorrected visual acuity of at least 20/50 in each eye, correctable to 20/20 in each eye;
…
( vi) holds or will hold a Bachelor’s Degree from an accredited college or university by June 30th of the year the application is filed;
(vii) has the ability to read, write, and speak fluent English;
(viii) is a citizen of the United States; and
(ix) has demonstrated through an interview and testing process the aptitude, interpersonal skills and physical skills required of a pilot…
…
(2) The apprenticeship program shall include a minimum of four years training. Time requirements, however, may will vary depending on the varying levels of professional training already possessed by those entering the apprenticeship and the needs of the pilot service.(3) During the apprenticeship, all apprentices must acquire:
**> **
**> **
> (i) a Merchant Mariner’s Document with Able-Bodied Seaman and Lifeboatman’s endorsements;
**> **
**> **
> (ii) a Federal Master of Pilot Vessel’s License or higher, issued with an endorsement as First Class Pilot or equivalent, and necessary extensions of route for all areas of the Port of New York and New Jersey, all as issued pursuant to 46 CFR Part 10 of the rules of the United States Coast Guard; and(iii) such other licenses and certificates as may be required for the training program by the Association or the board, including, but not limited to, ARPA (automatic radar plotting aid) certification and radar certification.
(4) In addition to the experience required to meet (ii) above, the apprentice shall make at least 225 trips during the last nine months of the apprenticeship (at least 40 of which shall be made during hours of darkness) on vessels under the supervision of a licensed Sandy Hook pilot.
ONE port. Any others?
Delaware state pilots.
You’re really hung up on the ‘Federal Pilot’ thing, huh?
Are you one? Trying to be one? Used to be one?
Not particularly, but since you don’t seem to grasp the concept I keep repeating myself.
No, no, and no.
IIRC, Maryland state pilots only require a 3M so any recent grad can apply.
I think Virginia requires nothing, but I would have to verify.
Virginia has a 7 year apprenticeship which involves seamanship training fairly close to that of a maritime academy. It is a rigorous program from all accounts but they actually prefer a clean slate to train from so experience works against you.
Savannah has several young pilots who joined immediately after high school and fathers were pilots. They have recently switched to requiring at least a third mates license so the pilots kids are now going to state academies.
Don’t even get me started on the Mississippi River.
The differences between the east and west coast associations are quite striking really.
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LOL they don’t want trainees talking out of their ass, something that catches on quickly in the maritime industry
Nine U.S. east coast ports have a “dual pilotage system” utilizing docking pilots: Portland ME, Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Norfolk, Wilmington NC, Charleston, Savannah, and Jacksonville. New York docking pilots are state-licensed. Baltimore had docking pilots; they merged with the Maryland pilots in the mid 2000s.
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