As an engineer, I have sailed with Masters that were incredibly competent, and others . . . well. . . not so much; and many in between. To be honest, having gone to an academy wasn’t really the deciding factor.
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No different than any other business, referring to C-Suite leadership.
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If they have a certificate of competency then they are competent. They might be stupid but not incompetent.
My humble opinion. The US exams are woefully inadequate when you speak to some other (European) nationalities and their testing regimens.
From my perspective as a sailing Master the key elements to my job are a) knowledge of people, b) knowledge of stability, c) knowledge of weather. Sure I suppose you could cheat at learning those things but you’re going to be terrible at the job once you get it.
Let’s also remember that one needs to sail as chief mate in order to reach Master and that meat grinder tends to separate the wheat from the chaff.
In conclusion We really need to start getting our examinations more in line with knowledge based learning versus memorization. Let retired mariners and engineers proctor exams. Put some effort into measuring competency. It can be done. It just takes work
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I agree completely and I think written and oral examinations would help. Of course a multiple guess exam is easier, especially if you are given the questions and answers to study beforehand. Others have argued that an oral examiner may be prejudiced due to some political leaning. I disagree with that thinking. Veteran mariners who interview candidates are just like myself and others who sailed for years. We honestly don’t give a rat’s ass about your political or union affiliation. We are only interested in how competent you are on a ship that our children or grandchildren may be working on. If one is competent why would one fear a written and oral exam? Passing such should be a point of pride rather than holding a piece of paper with the lowest common denominator in a purported first world country
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Oral exams can easily done with the applicant seated behind a screen, with a voice modifier, and limited personal info about the applicant available to the examiner. Almost all possible bias is removed this way. And yes I do believe oral exams crank the heat up on the candidate and force them to articulate some useful knowledge and not word/number banks.
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If you know your stuff the examiner will work it out so nervous or not you can pass.
They can also go back to something you said wrong and re check as they guess you probably know the correct answer.
They can also check your experience.
I noticed in DP classes so many students get stuck on questions but I know they know as I have already asked them and they have answered correctly every time.
Well this is the entire point of onboard assessments. The chief mates to master should not be signing off on people who are not able to Strongly demonstrate those skills.
Unfortunately we now live in a word where being nice is more important than being competent. Sometimes these assessments are just gun decked but more often the Captains just feels bad for “ruining a career” by not signing off. Even the hardnose captains will also relent if the mate has “worked really hard” to learn the material.
I’ve heard more than once “I can’t sink his career, he has a family to feed” as if you can’t feed a family on a second mate salary or at a shore-side job.
Furthermore cheif mates who don’t sign these assessments are labeled assholes which can hurt their chances of getting promoted.
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in Asia they just pay the Captain…
Same a when they were at College.
In an oral exam if you know your stuff then it won’t matter who is examining you.
Sometimes if you’ve done well but struggled on one bit then they will ask you to come back the next day and tell them about that.
I’ve done three as I progressed through to Master and if you don’t try and bullshit them, know your stuff and don’t say anything stupid then you are fine.
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You mean those captains that strut around being assholes to cover their lack of competence? Yeah, the office loves those guys.
Well, I should add it does depend on who is in the office, some see through the bs.
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Have you tried that in Singapore lately??
2 posts were split to a new topic: Singapore captains
No, maybe hardnosses isn’t the right word. Maybe tough love is better?
I meant the adept captains who set expectations high and hold everyone (including themselves) accountable.
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You guys harping about oral exams & higher/harder standards for licensing are confused. Gcaptain forum has active threads going on about shortages of officers & monthslong backlog at the NMC & this is what you come up with? On older threads I read about the MMA President flatly dismissing any acts if sexual harassment without doing any investigation & I watched video of a respected Texas Maritime instructor completely flipping out on a cadet on the Mass training ship. On this forum I’ve read dozens of people say they refuse to participate in the onboard qualified assessor programs but you people want more restrictions, hassles & human interactions in the licensing process? Good grief. If you hire an idiot do some formal training & write them up if they don’t perform accordingly. This seems like a case of a convoluted solution looking for a problem to solve to me.
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I just want to sit on a board and judge people. Harshly. Quit trying to kill my dreams.
A prospective captain is sitting before the licensing board when one of the board members asks him what he would do if the wind increased and he lost his anchor. He answers ‘Veer out another anchor’. The board member asks what if he lost that anchor as well? He receives the same answer. Finally the frustrated board member asks the candidate where exactly is he getting all of these anchors from. The candidate replies ‘The same place you’re getting all this wind!’.
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Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner!
You’re making assumptions.
Just because things are wrong does not mean I want them to be more difficult or complicated.
It is entirely possible to close loopholes AND accept more candidates AND streamline the process.
(OK maybe it’s not possible for the USCG to do it… but that’s their problem not mine)
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I’ve known plenty of officers out there who hold Master Unlimited tickets, but have yet to move past Second Mate. The office did a great job of knowing who was capable and who wasn’t. Honest performance reviews along with a relationship between crew and office is important. With the current structure of the licensing exams, that is the only prudent way to do it in my opinion. Cheaters are going to find a way to cheat, and if companies hired off of the ticket alone we would all be in trouble.
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That one came through when Noah was assessing candidates.