Info posted by the NMC yesterday regarding question pool & drawings removal and new “sample exams” going into effect Aug 1/Sept 1. Richard Plant has posted his response on lapware.org (don’t need to log-in to see it) if anyone is interested. I’m studying for CM/M and will be glad when this is all over. 25 days to get an upgrade application assigned to an evaluator at this time.
[B][I] “Merchant Mariner Credential Examinations [/I]
[I]The Coast Guard Authorization Act of 2015 requires several actions regarding Merchant Mariner Credentialing. This bulletin provides information related to Section 315: Examinations for Merchant Mariner Credentials. Per this section, the Coast Guard will cease public disclosure of examination questions and other information related to exams. [/I]
[I]In place of this information, the Coast Guard will provide an outline of merchant mariner examination topics as well as sample examinations. This information will be posted on the “Examinations” page of the National Maritime Center website on or about August 1, 2016. [/I]
[I]In addition, the Coast Guard intends to remove the current bank of examination questions and illustrations from the National Maritime Center Website on or about September 1, 2016. [/I]
[I]The Act contains other authorizations and requirements related to mariner credentialing. The Coast Guard is actively engaged in these actions and will publish additional information as it becomes available. [/I]
[I]If you have questions or feedback regarding the sample examinations, please contact the NMC by using our Online Chat or Ticketing System, by e-mail at IASKNMC@uscg.mil, or by calling 1-888-IASKNMC (1-888-427-5662). [/I]
[I]Sincerely, [/I]
[I]//K. R. Martin// [/I]
[I]Kirsten R. Martin [/I]
[I]Captain, U.S. Coast Guard [/I]
[I]Commanding Officer”[/I][/B]
This is exactly what I came here to post about, and try to generate some discussion. Ive been looking for information as to why this is necessary? Its happening, and soon, but whats the justification?
Deck guys are EVERYWHERE. They’re like cockroaches, for every one you see, there is 100 more that you don’t.
There is a mariner shortage in general, but seriously, the industry is hurting so bad for engineers and this will obviously make testing more difficult. I don’t really have a dog in this fight as I’m already licensed, but why does it needed to be even more difficult to obtain a license? Is there proven incompetence in hawsepipe engineers, and now the coast guard feels that they will slowly chip away at that route, until they eventually just come out and say that those who wish to hold a license must have a formal education?
Simple. The government has for too long allowed applicants to just memorize answers and get licenses without actually having much knowledge of the required subjects. Now people are actually going to need to show that they understand the topics on the exams in order to pass. This is long overdue.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;188258]Simple. The government has for too long allowed applicants to just memorize answers and get licenses without actually having much knowledge of the required subjects. Now people are actually going to need to show that they understand the topics on the exams in order to pass. This is long overdue.[/QUOTE]
I hope that the quality of the questions being asked is improved as well. So much of the material is irrelevant and outdated, and the whole “may, may not, have, have not” verbiage used on similar questions just to confuse the person taking the exam is silly.
Mariner shortage? Especially engineers?
That’s news to me and a lot others having to settle for mediocre jobs making wages we were making 10 years ago. Before you ask, I wasn’t on the gulf gravy train.
As far as memorizing answers…I don’t see how people CAN pass that way. If I don’t understand the concept the question is referring to, I’m a lost cause pretty much.
I agree that the exam questions should be straightforward and clear without “trick” questions. It’s not suppose to be an English semantics exam. I also agree that the post WWII cargo gear questions, and many others are of little practice value. Very very few questions even mention containers, much less test the topic in a practical way. The current exams are mostly stuck in the 1950’s.
At a time when there is a great glut of mariners, it’s to our advantage to have more thorough exams to restrict a flood of easy new licenses.
Another thing that needs to be stopped is allowing USCG exams to be given at the exam prep schools where too often the schools make sure people pass, especially at the company owned schools. What a joke.
[QUOTE=Emrobu;188271]You guys don’t have an oral/sketching part to your license exams?[/QUOTE]
No, we don’t have any orals or sketching. We should, just like the MCA and Transport Canada. My impression is that the orals double check to make sure that candidates have judgment and practical knowledge, and that they are not just “book smart.”
The chart sketches for pilots arecan entirely different thing. Pilots must be able to draw in all the AIDS to navigation, courses and distances, depths, and land marks to scale on a blank chart that only has an outline of the land, for each route where the pilot is licensed.
[QUOTE=Ctony;188272]Pilot exams have a chart sketch.[/QUOTE]
We’re allowed to bring drafting tools, pencil crayons and the formula book. They could ask us to draw components and whole systems and a little essay to go with about how it works, materials, relevant safety stuff, relevant regs stuff, maintenance. it doesn’t have to be to scale, but it does have to be neat and look like it will work. And they ask us questions face to face. Everything needs to come out of our heads. I don’t think there’s a way to spoof it.
I’ll let you guys know before I go sit mine so you can buy stock in an antiperspirant manufacturer.
I believe the current USCG exam questions as currently used are a good start to the licensing requirements. One has to put a lot of effort into learning the proper answers. I would suggest the USCG add an oral exam. I have interviewed prospective engineers who already passed the USCG exam and been disappointed at some of the answers I have received to very elementary questions. Maritime grads who have endured 4 years of education are really disappointing when you ask them simple questions like, “Considering weight is an important part in designing a ship why don’t ship builders use aluminum pipe if it can be obtained at the same cost as steel pipe for use in sea water?”
“What is the difference in Schedule 80 and Schedule 40 pipe? What do the terms mean?”
"If you close the discharge valve of a running centrifugal pump will the amperage go up or down and why?"
Rarely did I get a correct or reasonable discussion regarding those three very elementary questions. Invariably the brighter maritime applicants would say, “Can’t you just ask me some math questions?”
[QUOTE=Ctony;188268]Mariner shortage? Especially engineers?
That’s news to me and a lot others having to settle for mediocre jobs making wages we were making 10 years ago. Before you ask, I wasn’t on the gulf gravy train.
As far as memorizing answers…I don’t see how people CAN pass that way. If I don’t understand the concept the question is referring to, I’m a lost cause pretty much.[/QUOTE]
I suppose it may be different depending on the license you hold and the industries you have experience in. I do understand that the flood of mariners leaving the oil field has saturated other indurstries their experience serves.
[QUOTE=snacktray;188286]I suppose it may be different depending on the license you hold and the industries you have experience in. I do understand that the flood of mariners leaving the oil field has saturated other indurstries their experience serves.[/QUOTE]
There are almost NO jobs for engineers out there from what my younger proteges have told me. Some have found work with US military contractors and a few with power contractors. I shudder to think what the deck people are finding for employment now. The USA and other developed countries are in a recession/depression now.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;188284] I would suggest the USCG add an oral exam. [/QUOTE]
Not disagreeing with your suggestion, but who would the examiners for such a test be? It has been a long time since I set foot in a testing room but at that time the USCG personnel there seemed to be just proctors. Come to think of it even the ones in marine inspection (at least for PSC inspections) don’t seem all that fluent in technical matters. They key in on record keeping, procedures, LSA, drills etc. Perhaps that is as it should be. But I think your suggestion would require a re-thinking of certain USCG functions and the personnel involved.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;188284]I believe the current USCG exam questions as currently used are a good start to the licensing requirements. One has to put a lot of effort into learning the proper answers. I would suggest the USCG add an oral exam. I have interviewed prospective engineers who already passed the USCG exam and been disappointed at some of the answers I have received to very elementary questions. Maritime grads who have endured 4 years of education are really disappointing when you ask them simple questions like, “Considering weight is an important part in designing a ship why don’t ship builders use aluminum pipe if it can be obtained at the same cost as steel pipe for use in sea water?”
“What is the difference in Schedule 80 and Schedule 40 pipe? What do the terms mean?”
"If you close the discharge valve of a running centrifugal pump will the amperage go up or down and why?"
Rarely did I get a correct or reasonable discussion regarding those three very elementary questions. Invariably the brighter maritime applicants would say, “Can’t you just ask me some math questions?”[/QUOTE]
Ooh, ooh, ooh, I know the answer to all three and I am a maritime grad . . . oh, wait. . would I have known the answers to all three 35 year ago? Hmm, one would hope. Although I am not one who memorizes answers. . . .
Updated - - -
[QUOTE=KPChief;188291]Not disagreeing with your suggestion, but who would the examiners for such a test be? It has been a long time since I set foot in a testing room but at that time the USCG personnel there seemed to be just proctors. Come to think of it even the ones in marine inspection (at least for PSC inspections) don’t seem all that fluent in technical matters. They key in on record keeping, procedures, LSA, drills etc. Perhaps that is as it should be. But I think your suggestion would require a re-thinking of certain USCG functions and the personnel involved.[/QUOTE]
Like a lot of things, my experience working with USCG inspectors is somewhat dated, but I did work with them closely for some time in my ABS days. I found that, for the most part, the WOs were pretty good and experienced. If they weren’t, they would come to me for input. At times the officers were a bit green, but behind the scenes, they would also defer to their experienced WOs for input. When Port State Inspections first started, they were handled by completely different personnel and often would only have SOLAS to go by and were not very savvy in being able to read it and understand how it applied. Granted I made quite a bit of overtime because of misguided detentions and the lot, but a day or two off would have been nice without a panicked owner or agent calling me about a detention on a Classes vessel. . .
As far as licensing, I had a big runaround some time ago when I went to renew my license using my time as a Class Surveyor . . . “oh, do you board vessels?” It took about a month for that question to be asked.
We need a new civilian agency akin to the FAA to take over maritime licensing and inspections. Given STCW and the internationalization of both licensing and inspection.
We should probably bring in a bunch of Northern European consultants fluent in STCW and the way things are done everywhere else in the world to help set it up.
[QUOTE=snacktray;188286]I suppose it may be different depending on the license you hold and the industries you have experience in. I do understand that the flood of mariners leaving the oil field has saturated other indurstries their experience serves.[/QUOTE]
Flood of mariners leaving the oil field saturating other industries, yes thats the biggest culprit I’d say.
dde unlimited/assistant limited…one would hope some opportunities would be out there for that…but it seems yet again I’m one upgrade behind…
Ferries in Washington State have to draw chartlets for the routes they work. Not sure how common that is with other US/Canadian systems.
So is the process by which the Murphy books are created to go away as well? Will they have to purchase the rights to publish the questions? Or did they always do that?
Just looked at a couple of the sample exams (one per module). They are somewhat close to what I’m studying on Lapware. Some questions I wasn’t spending too much time on I will now focus more time on. There are topic headings for each test below the hyperlink to download the sample test. Not sure I’d pay close attention to those. It says “tides and tidal currents” are a major topic for the oceans/celestial test. Really? Vague to say the least.
