Has anyone heard the rumors about the USCG changing the multiple choice tests to a combination of essay questions and multiple choice?
I heard it from a few Cadets and just wanted to know if anyone-else had any info on this.
Thanks in advance!
Who would grade the short answers, its not like anyone over there knows what they’re talking about anyways. You give them checklists and they still have trouble, I can only imagine what kind of chaos and confusion this would bring.
I agree! Also can you imagine how long people will have to wait for the scores!! I
I wouldn’t put “heard” and “cadet” in the same sentence when referring to USCG policy. That being said, I would have to, without doubt, get a job at NMC just to read some of the answers if that was the case.
Q.Can you explain the importance of a bowline?
A. Bowline is very important because my mom and dad met each other on bowline night, got married, and had me.
You are right! I guess cadets are not a very reliable source.
[QUOTE=PR-9;53412]I heard it from a few Cadets …[/QUOTE]
Anyone going to take a swing at this softball?
This may be a return to the ‘old way’ of examinations. Prior to 1970 (or so) all exams were essay format. They were graded by mariners (albeit USCG Chiefs or similar experience level) I am NOT sure if it is what is being proposed now, but prior to 1974 (or so) ALL the upper level examinations were a combination of multiple guess and essay. Then, shortly after they became all multiple guess. The education level of applicants was ‘fore shadowing’ the lowered level of the grasp of English needed for the exams. It was felt that the requisite materiel could be ‘proven’ via multiple question exams, because the tests could be written such a way (in USCG double speak) to make it possible to ‘weed out’ the candidates who didn’t really know subject matter. The caveat to this was an ORAL exam was used if you requested it, but even that was eliminated for every exam for over 100 tons back shortly after.
It appears that due to IMO pressure, a return to written examinations is being sought to bring US into compliance with foreign examination levels. Possible we will have to learn the ‘King’s English’ too, if it is felt that would make US as competent as the rest of the modern world! OK, that last was a joke… But not by much!
I honestly can’t see this happening. Who at the REC’s around the country would be competent to answer a celestial navigation essay answer? I’m pretty sure I read that the Naval and CG Acadamys aren’t even teaching celestial navigation anymore.
Even worse, the tests would probably get sent to the NMC for grading and you will have to wait 12 weeks to find out if you passed or not. Then of course there will be the challenges. You can figure the whole process from application to new license would take about a year and thats generous.
And they will need a notarized letter from your 3rd grade grammar teacher attesting to your attendance and participation.
[QUOTE=cappy208;53438]It appears that due to IMO pressure, a return to written examinations is being sought to bring US into compliance with foreign examination levels…[/QUOTE]
Think about it, especially in light of today’s news. Every exam would have to be graded by someone with experience and a license at least equal to the exam. Even if enough people can be found who’d take the job, you’re looking at GS-12 to GS-13 pay grades ($75K to $115K in DC area). Do you think there’s kind of spare change floating around DC these days?
In other words, it ain’t gonna happen.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;53451]Think about it, especially in light of today’s news. Every exam would have to be graded by someone with experience and a license at least equal to the exam. Even if enough people can be found who’d take the job, you’re looking at GS-12 to GS-13 pay grades ($75K to $115K in DC area). Do you think there’s kind of spare change floating around DC these days?
In other words, it ain’t gonna happen.[/QUOTE]
Hell, I’ll do it for free, but I only want the 100 ton Masters and AB’s from Mississippi and Alabama…y’all can have the rest.
[QUOTE=anchorman;53453]Hell, I’ll do it for free, but I only want the 100 ton Masters and AB’s from Mississippi and Alabama…y’all can have the rest.[/QUOTE]
Only if you promise to post the best one’s for us to read!
And as a 100 ton master that is originally from MS I would love to read some of them with you.
You did!!
Like Anchorman said I guess I should have never put those two in the same sentence!!
But I am only quoting them because they said their school was talking about getting ready to prepare the upcoming freshman for the new style of test.
My experience with essay format exams was in 1978 through 1980. I sat for the old “Operator Uninspected Towing Vessel” ticket and then followed with First Class Pilot at the NY REC. There were two or three Master Chiefs and one civilian inspector that graded the exams. You got 5 index cards(each with a question), finish 5 , get 5 more. With the essay format you had a chance of a partial credit for some questions when you got close to including most of the answer. These guys had the experience and judgement to decide if you knew what you were talking about but had trouble articulating in essay form. By the time I was sitting for my Master’s ticket in 1984, it was all multiple choice. These days I would sincerely doubt that kind of knowledge and background could exist in the REC’s as they are now. The multiple choice format removed the need for an experienced mariner to grade your work, challenges now are a waste of time. Then, if you could make a strong case to the proctor, he’d give you the credit, or at least some. The old way was good in that it allowed some discretion on the part of the examiner. But like the man said, it ain’t gonna happen.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;53451]Think about it, especially in light of today’s news. Every exam would have to be graded by someone with experience and a license at least equal to the exam. Even if enough people can be found who’d take the job, you’re looking at GS-12 to GS-13 pay grades ($75K to $115K in DC area). Do you think there’s kind of spare change floating around DC these days?
In other words, it ain’t gonna happen.[/QUOTE]
You mention that topic, but the real issue is why is there NOT civmar in the NMC and at the input level on the advisory committees to put real experienced mariners there??? It is not that no one applies, but that with the (although a couple year old) TSAC advisory committee example, the CG seems to do what AWO and government wants anyway!?
[QUOTE=cappy208;53466]You mention that topic, but the real issue is why is there NOT civmar in the NMC and at the input level on the advisory committees to put real experienced mariners there??? It is not that no one applies[/QUOTE]
What’s your basis for the above statement? I know first hand that a big problem is that no one applies. I hired most of the 9 experienced mariners at NMC. On several of the hirings, we had to extend the announceemnt because no one applied. Usually, we get 2 or 3 applicants. I’ve never seen more than 6. And when we get a few that do apply, many won’t accept the offer as it’s too big of a pay cut. Even at some of the higher ciivilian pay grades, the jobs can’t pay enough to induce someone to take a pay cut and move to West Virginia or Washington, DC. There’s not much chance we would be able to hire enough mariners with the experience and education required to be credible examiners at the pay scale the Federal government would pay, even if there were funds available (beforte you suggest the pay needs tto be higher, consider that the jobs are alraedy near the top of the pay scale, and there are some who think we’re already grossly overpaid. Also, the job requires more than experience as a mariner. The most knowledgeable, experienced mariner is uselss if they cannot write a coherent sentence and/or cannot credibly articulate their opinions.
I’m not sure what the “TSAC advisory committee example” is. Probably better that I don’t as if you’re referring to the qual;ifications of the civilian representatives of the Coast Guard who reguularly I attend, I might get offended.
I completely understand. I would rather eat a fist full of ticks than go to work and live in West Virgina. Then while I am there try to understand and write all these policies. Then have to change them all the time because I could never make everyone happy. I think I will just stay out here and rant about them from time to time. lol
[QUOTE=jdcavo;53471]What’s your basis for the above statement? I know first hand that a big problem is that no one applies. I hired most of the 9 experienced mariners at NMC. On several of the hirings, we had to extend the announceemnt because no one applied. Usually, we get 2 or 3 applicants. I’ve never seen more than 6. And when we get a few that do apply, many won’t accept the offer as it’s too big of a pay cut. Even at some of the higher ciivilian pay grades, the jobs can’t pay enough to induce someone to take a pay cut and move to West Virginia or Washington, DC. There’s not much chance we would be able to hire enough mariners with the experience and education required to be credible examiners at the pay scale the Federal government would pay, even if there were funds available (beforte you suggest the pay needs tto be higher, consider that the jobs are alraedy near the top of the pay scale, and there are some who think we’re already grossly overpaid. Also, the job requires more than experience as a mariner. The most knowledgeable, experienced mariner is uselss if they cannot write a coherent sentence and/or cannot credibly articulate their opinions.
I’m not sure what the “TSAC advisory committee example” is. Probably better that I don’t as if you’re referring to the qual;ifications of the civilian representatives of the Coast Guard who reguularly I attend, I might get offended.[/QUOTE]
You both asked the question, made the answering statement, and then confirmed why this is not happening. Pay.
In regards to TSAC. The whole TOAR, 30 day wonder rule. I know of two members who were on the committee who felt that the only responsible solution was to continue the ‘Then’ program and let the companies plan ahead. Instead AWO and industry (with USCG backing) pushed the 30 day wonder rule. A really good case of industry being the power, the CG being the method, and the professional mariner being ignored. AGAIN!
To my thinking, the industry should NOT be regulated by a quasi military arm of the Govt. I realize that industry is incapable of regulating itself, since ‘they will soon forget what they are regulating.’ But it rankles me that a government entity that CAN’T do my job can regulate me!
In reference to your worry about if it applies to you, Not specifically you; But it does to all! How many of your brethren can transition from push to tow once or twice a watch, make the decision of whether to keep pushing, or break tow (speed is everything in this business), or recover a broken pennant (in 20’ seas)? All while having 2 (yes TWO) guys on deck, and one up top running the controls! Not the usual 12 or 15 on a cutter. Yet I have to undergo scrutiny for each and every thing I do aboard by these boarding officers (who are just filling a billet for 3 years here, 3 years there) until they move up the ladder to get a couple bars, and an eagle?
I was at a conference and one of the CG reps there shared his CV with us. I think it was to try to make us feel he was an equal. He said how he spent 3 or 4 years in Prince William sound on oil spill preposition equipment. I asked him if this was the ‘old Amoco Equipment’ and he replied in the affirmative. I then asked for confirmation that this stuff has NOT been used for several years. He confirmed. And further clarified that the equipment sometimes NEVER even moves for Months. HMMMM. Claiming sea service on a parked tug and barge unit? I am wondering exactly how this guys ‘experience’ qualifies him to use this as a reference???
OOPS. I forgot the real question. How does that NCR I got during the last external audit for missing one Collision/Allission drill last year have ANYTHING to do with how well I can put the barge on the wire, after the pins failed, with no injury, and towing like a conventional tug? Show me the connection to how my paperwork is squared away, in relation to actually operating the vessel? Paperwork is B.S. Actually having the required skills to do the job (under any conditions) is what is required. It is to bad these IMO driven idiots don’t have a clue! I know several guys who are ‘crackerjack’ paperwork artists. But they have a difficult time running the boat light, can’t stay on a range properly, or openly say, if separated from their ATB barge they won’t even attempt to recover and tow! BUT they are great monthly report producers and even encourage more nonsensical paperwork submission!
Just wait until the next generation of ATB operators come up (should be in a year or two) who have NO towing experience, have NEVER put a barge on or off the wire (in ANY condition.) They will be coming into Captains’ berths soon! BUT, They DO have 30 days on a towing vessel, and a signed TOAR! Huh?