AB to Mate question, and a couple of others

  1. When submitting paperwork for an upgrade/letter to test, in my case 1600 Mate NC, does an endorsement you already have qualify for the amount of sea service that was required for that endorsement? Example: AB-Special = 360 days (this may very well be the “stupid” question of the few that I have, so I am getting it out of the way first)

  2. If I were to take an OUPV course and submit paperwork for that, but only a few months away from submitting paperwork for the Mates license mentioned in question 1, would the sea service letters/discharge documents used for the OUPV still be okay to use for the Mates license? Total days of sea service is always TOTAL days of sea service no matter what, right?

  3. Has anyone had luck getting paperwork for a letter to test through the NMC faster by submitting everything you have at the time, maybe lacking one or two items from your checklist, and then getting those things to them as you get them, kind of “finalizing” the process that they began when you first sent them the incomplete paperwork?? I have heard of this, and would like to hear more. Trying to avoid a lot of waiting time for a letter to test…

Thanks in advance for any help with these.

If you qualify for a 1600 mates license you will automatically have a 100 ton masters license. See 46 CFR 15.901 (a)…duhhhhh!

No need to waste money on a course to get a six pack license…and yes the seatime is good.

[QUOTE=“cowboy;119675”]If you qualify for a 1600 mates license you will automatically have a 100 ton masters license. See 46 CFR 15.901 (a)…duhhhhh![/QUOTE]

But I don’t qualify for the mates license yet, and I believe the section you are referring me to says Master or Mate over 200t = Master of <100 ton inspected vessels.

[QUOTE=“cowboy;119676”]No need to waste money on a course to get a six pack license…[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on this? I don’t understand. Just need to knock out some more sea time on my time off from the real job and want to be able to run commercial tow/private stuff. Why not need a six pack course. Thanks for the replies.

I’m sorry I don’t quite understand your question. How much sea time do you have? On what size boats? There is a huge difference between a OUPV and 1600 ton Mate license. If you are close to having enough time did the 1600 license, have taken all the STCW courses, etc. it seems you should be able to get at least a 100 ton Master. Why waste time with the OUPV? Anyway… yes total days means total days. Otherwise every time you get a raise in grade it would be like starting over. I would think it would be better to spend your money on a 500/1600 course. More expensive, yes but you get everything at once. The NMC won’t process your application until they have everything. In fact the REC waits until they have a complete application package BEFORE they submit it to NMC. So better to get it all together first. I just did a renewal/ increase of scope and it was pretty quick. 2 weeks maybe.

[QUOTE=“cowboy;119680”]

I’m sorry I don’t quite understand your question. How much sea time do you have? On what size boats? There is a huge difference between a OUPV and 1600 ton Mate license. If you are close to having enough time did the 1600 license, have taken all the STCW courses, etc. it seems you should be able to get at least a 100 ton Master. Why waste time with the OUPV? Anyway… yes total days means total days. Otherwise every time you get a raise in grade it would be like starting over. I would think it would be better to spend your money on a 500/1600 course. More expensive, yes but you get everything at once. The NMC won’t process your application until they have everything. In fact the REC waits until they have a complete application package BEFORE they submit it to NMC. So better to get it all together first. I just did a renewal/ increase of scope and it was pretty quick. 2 weeks maybe.[/QUOTE]

I don’t really know where to start, and feel like this thread is about to go way off topic… if this “100 ton license” you keep referring to is Master nmt 200, look at the checklist. I have not served as master, mate, or equivalent because I DON’T hold any endorsement other than Able Seaman with rfpnw, psc, tank/barge dl etc., so I DON’T have the 360 of the 720 In a supervisory position required for the license I think you are talking about.

My sea time varies from small boats to big, but the majority is on unlimited stuff. I work on OSV’s now and have about 4 more hitches to have my time in for my mates license. The only class I have left is flashing light, and all of my OICNW assessments are signed off. I am debating on whether I will do test prep at Houston Marine Training in Houston or MPT in Ft. L, and will probably do a little at Fletcher with Captain Bruce.

I appreciate you being eager to help, but I still haven’t really got an answer to any of my questions.

What is a 500/1600 class?? Are you talking about test prep?

I read a few of your posts on the site, if you have any questions about job hunting in Louisiana and working down here in the gulf, PM me, I will be happy to help in any way I can.

[QUOTE=“cowboy;119680”]

There is a huge difference between a OUPV and 1600 ton Mate license.[/QUOTE]

Maybe c.captain can help clear this up…and maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and just lurked like I have the past 4 years. =/

[QUOTE=Native Texan;119672]1. When submitting paperwork for an upgrade/letter to test, in my case 1600 Mate NC, does an endorsement you already have qualify for the amount of sea service that was required for that endorsement? Example: AB-Special = 360 days (this may very well be the “stupid” question of the few that I have, so I am getting it out of the way first)[/QUOTE]

There’s nothing that prevents it, but the time as to meet the specific requirements for the license you’re applying for.

[QUOTE=Native Texan;119672]2. If I were to take an OUPV course and submit paperwork for that, but only a few months away from submitting paperwork for the Mates license mentioned in question 1, would the sea service letters/discharge documents used for the OUPV still be okay to use for the Mates license? Total days of sea service is always TOTAL days of sea service no matter what, right?[/QUOTE]

The sea time can be used per #1, above. If you take a course instead ogf an REC exam, you may not be able to use it a second time.

[QUOTE=Native Texan;119672]3. Has anyone had luck getting paperwork for a letter to test through the NMC faster by submitting everything you have at the time, maybe lacking one or two items from your checklist, and then getting those things to them as you get them, kind of “finalizing” the process that they began when you first sent them the incomplete paperwork?? I have heard of this, and would like to hear more. Trying to avoid a lot of waiting time for a letter to test.[/QUOTE]

Sending everything required will be faster. In fact, depending on what is missing, your application might not even be accepted if there are glaring deficiencies.

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[QUOTE=cowboy;119675]If you qualify for a 1600 mates license you will automatically have a 100 ton masters license. See 46 CFR 15.901 (a)…duhhhhh![/QUOTE]

You won’t “have” a Master 100 license Ii.e. the words are in your MMC), but you can serve as the master on a vessel less than 100 gross tons without having the master 100 exam. You don’t get the master 100 on your MMC just by having a license as mate that’s good for over 200 gross tons, even in 46 CXFR Part 15 lets you serve as Master on a vessel that’s less than 100 gross tons.

A 100 ton master license is the highest master license you can sit for on your original application. You are reading the requirements for 200 GRT master that say:
720 total days of service on Ocean or Near Coastal waters, OF WHICH:
Service on Great Lakes & Inland waters MAY substitute for up to 360 days of the required
service, AND
360 days MUST have been as a master, mate, or equivalent supervisory position while holding
an endorsement as master, as mate, or as operator of uninspected passenger vessels; OR 360 days as a Master or Mate of Towing Vessel on oceans or near coastal routes and
completion of a limited examination.

Right?
You’re thinking " I don’t have the 360 days as master, mate or OUPV!" Right???
Notice it says “master, mate or OUPV”… hmmm what kind master license could that be???

Well read down below there to the requirements for
100 GRT – 180 days of service on vessels of 51 GRT or above, OR
360 days of service on vessels over 34 GRT.

Get it?
You can test for and receive a Master 100 GRT NC or Oceans which is a longer test but it allows you to operate vessels up to 100 GRT with no restriction on number of passengers. This is a much better license to have then OUPV. You qualify for this. My earlier point was that you have to take a SERIOUS test for the 1600 GRT Mates license, much more involved than a 100 GRT test. But if you pass… You automatically get your 100 GRT Master!!! Done deal! Why waste time studying for an easier test when in 4 hitches you will need to study for a much harder test? Why pay the $140 application fee twice? That was my point
. But yes you could take a 100 ton exam prep course right now and get that license. You can run charter boats or sea tow boats or dinner boats or duck boats or whatever up to 100 GRT and your Mate ticket let’s you sail on the larger vessels.

jdcavo said:
You won’t “have” a Master 100 license Ii.e. the words are in your MMC), but you can serve as the master on a vessel less than 100 gross tons without having the master 100 exam. You don’t get the master 100 on your MMC just by having a license as mate that’s good for over 200 gross tons, even in 46 CXFR Part 15 lets you serve as Master on a vessel that’s less than 100 gross tons.[/QUOTE]

Okay… So even though it doesn’t say it on the ticket, he would still be able to run boats up to 100 GRT without further examination, correct?

Thanks JD, always nice to get your input. Thanks again for the quick reply to my message a few months back.

So am I reading your answer correctly that yes, if you submit paperwork and have AB-Limited, then you would not need to account for those 540 days, just the difference in the days required for the upgrade??

Okay… So even though it doesn’t say it on the ticket, he would still be able to run boats up to 100 GRT without further examination, correct?[/QUOTE]

Yes, like the man said. Mate >200 tons lets you sail mater <100. Beware idiots at companies and the CG that don’t know that though.

[QUOTE=Native Texan;119918]Thanks JD, always nice to get your input. Thanks again for the quick reply to my message a few months back.

So am I reading your answer correctly that yes, if you submit paperwork and have AB-Limited, then you would not need to account for those 540 days, just the difference in the days required for the upgrade??[/QUOTE]

That should be the case, but probably isn’t. Although absent reason to suspect a mistake or fraud an endorsement should be evidence of having the minimum service required to get it, NMC will probably want to see the sea service.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;119926]That should be the case, but probably isn’t. Although absent reason to suspect a mistake or fraud an endorsement should be evidence of having the minimum service required to get it, NMC will probably want to see the sea service.[/QUOTE]

JDCavo What if you got the AB through a “program”, such as the SIU apprenticeship? Is the NMC going to give you a hard time upgrading to AB Limited because you got the AB Special through a program in lieu of sea time? SIU doesn’t give you a sea time letter, just the approval paperwork for the AB Special (yes, I asked the office at Piney Point, you get no sea time letters whatsoever) and when I called the NMC to ask this question, they couldn’t answer it, because the people I talked to at the NMC hotline never heard of the SIU apprenticeship program. The SIU admissions director said what you did about the endorsement being enough, but your statement “NMC will probably want to see the sea service” now worries me, given the response I got from the hotline.

[QUOTE=MariaW;119979]JDCavo What if you got the AB through a “program”, such as the SIU apprenticeship? Is the NMC going to give you a hard time upgrading to AB Limited because you got the AB Special through a program in lieu of sea time? SIU doesn’t give you a sea time letter, just the approval paperwork for the AB Special (yes, I asked the office at Piney Point, you get no sea time letters whatsoever) and when I called the NMC to ask this question, they couldn’t answer it, because the people I talked to at the NMC hotline never heard of the SIU apprenticeship program. The SIU admissions director said what you did about the endorsement being enough, but your statement “NMC will probably want to see the sea service” now worries me, given the response I got from the hotline.[/QUOTE]

It should work, because of the way the program is approved. It’s actually not a “program.” It’s not approved as a "school ship " program meaning you complete the program, you get the endorsement. It’s approved for a specific amount of sea time that can be used for an AB endorsement. Only the phases done at Piney Point are approved, the at sea portions are just sea time evidenced by your certificate of discharge or company letter. So the days of credit you get from the Piney Point phases can be used for a higher level AB endorsement, as can the sea time from the at sea phases. The net of all this is the only new time you need is the difference between AB-Special and AB-Limited or unlimited. But you’ll probably have to show your sea time letter of discharge and your Piney Point certificates again. And the above explanation and the methodol;ogy used to approve the Piney Point “program” is out of the norm for evaluators, so you may need to escalate to a higher level at NMC.

Thanks, that was the most coherent, understandable explanation I’ve gotten. Piney Point told me apprentices don’t get letters for the at sea phases, I’m glad you say they actually do. They described it as a program, you have to finish all of it, or you get no sea time whatsoever, even for the at sea portions. Is Piney Point the only school that is approved for classroom = sea time credit towards an AB? I have searched but haven’t found any others.

[QUOTE=“MariaW;119994”]Thanks, that was the most coherent, understandable explanation I’ve gotten. Piney Point told me apprentices don’t get letters for the at sea phases, I’m glad you say they actually do. They described it as a program, you have to finish all of it, or you get no sea time whatsoever, even for the at sea portions. Is Piney Point the only school that is approved for classroom = sea time credit towards an AB? I have searched but haven’t found any others.[/QUOTE]

Maine Maritime Academy has a 2-year program that gets you an Associates Degree in Small Vessel Operations, a 200 ton Mate license, and an AB Limited.

[QUOTE=MariaW;119994]Thanks, that was the most coherent, understandable explanation I’ve gotten. Piney Point told me apprentices don’t get letters for the at sea phases, [/QUOTE]

They don;t get them from SIU/Piney Point. But since you are going out as OS or Wiper, you gert the same sea service documents that other OS and Wipers get. For most of the ships they use, this will be a certificate of discharge. You should also get the certificate of discharge from the ship in the first at sea phase whenn you aren’t yet working as an OS/Wiper. I can’t say if they would place a cadet/trainee on their first at sea phase on a smaller vessel that doesn’t use certificates of discharge, and if they do, I don’t know if you’d get a letter. If so, ask the Captain, or better, draft one for his or her signature. As long as the letter accurately describes your time on the vessel, there should not be any reasonable objections to giving one.

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[QUOTE=MariaW;119994]Thanks, that was the most coherent, understandable explanation I’ve gotten. Piney Point told me apprentices don’t get letters for the at sea phases, I’m glad you say they actually do. They described it as a program, you have to finish all of it, or you get no sea time whatsoever, even for the at sea portions. Is Piney Point the only school that is approved for classroom = sea time credit towards an AB? I have searched but haven’t found any others.[/QUOTE]

Seattle Mariime Academy should have one, and also the US Department of Labor Tongue Point Job Corps Center in Oregon.

Probably much more worthwhile in my opinion than being caught up in SIU.