Were did all the schools to upgrade go?

I was wondering if anyone would know of a maritime school too upgrade to a 500 ton mate nc.I’ve been surfing the net and had no luck.I live in texas,and the last school I went to was young memorial in Morgan city far a 100 ton nc,but they don’t have 500 ton classes.they don’t even do 200 ton upgrades anymore.I found a school in houston that only went up to 200 tons.I have a a/b unl.& 100 ton master,with plenty of sea time and tonnage on both far a up grade just cant find the schools.any help would be appreciated.

<P>There are several 500T/1600T mate programs, but your looking at $15,000 worth of STCW classes, which is why you can’t find any around Houston and Morgan City. Most oilfield personnel opt for the OSV license that has less requirements (in reference to STCW). There are programs within companies with assessment of skills in place of all STCW requirements structured within a coast guard approved program. In my opinion, this is the route to go, but check out PMI, if you want to waste your money. An OSV license which can go to 6,000 ton through a variety of coast guard approved programs can always shed the trade restriction later down the road without the elementary STCW course that you would have had to taking initially with the unrestricted 500ton NC. Something about making good money and getting practical experience as you go.</P>

Apply for a job running crewboats and work your way up. You just may find your training gets paid for along the way. <br><br>I’m curious why you’re going for 500 Mate N/C. Why not 500 Master / 1600 Mate Oceans?

Check out Maritime Professional Training in Fort Lauderdale. They offer all the courses you are looking for. Housing is about $800 - $1300 a month. Jet Blue flys to Fort Lauderdale. Ask about course discounts if you are taking a lot of courses.

The various OSV programs are approved for STCW restricted to near coastal domestic voyages. To “shed the trade restriction” you’ll have to do all of the STCW training you avoided to get the near coastal <font color=#111111>domestic STCW. <br></font><br>The tonnage increase programs are currently approved to go to 3,000 Gross Tons ITC, not 6,000. The 6,00 Ton increase for OSVs is the subject of pending legislation, but it has not passed and there are no Coast Guard approved programs to increase tonnage to 6,000 ITC.<br><br>The tonnage increase programs increase the tonnage but are subject to whatever other restrictions are on your STCW. If you were restricted to near coastal domestic before the tonnage program, you’re restricted after. If you were not restricted before, this carries over and there’s no restriction on the STCW after.<br><br>As far as license prep courses, the Mate 500/1600 GRT exams are now the same as the 3rd Mate Any GRT exam. If you look for a 3rd Mate prep course you may have more luck.<br><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training & Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</A>

<P>Mr.Cavo,<br> I know your position, but I have not witnessed a mariner that has become a Master OSV through Coast Guard approved courses, have to regress back to taking a 3 day course on a compass, basic shiphandling, or basic weather (for example) when trying to get a 1600 ton master unrestricted. As you already know, a majority of the STCW classes are required for the OSV license. If the Coast Guard granted a mariner a license to run as Master on an OSV (restricted to 3,000ITC), and then required that same experienced mariner to prove competency with course work ( policy 01-02) to be approved to test for 1,600 ton, I would say that mariner has a slam-dunk protest by sighting practical experience. <br><br>That same mariner could have taken a large OSV program as well that would have taken off the 3,000 ITC restriction and the license would be limited only by the Subchapter L limits which is 6,000ton (presently). That put that mariner a master of a ship practically.<br><br>For any mariner that has used this career path and guidance to embark on a OSV career, then have to go back and take operational level STCW classes because he/she decided to work on a 501ton dive vessel seems mad. If this is how I interpret the previous post, maybe a policy change should be on the table for better career guidance.</P>
<P>For what it’s worth, I was one of the original 6 mariners that was granted a 6,000 ton license in 1997, way before there was a Larger OSV program. The CG approved program came later with STCW. Based on history, CG approved programs are usually reactionary to industry needs. The need for qualified mariners always preceeds any action by the Coast Guard and that’s why I was grandfathered based on experience determined by the Coast Guard.<br><br>The current legislation and NOSAC proposal reguarding OSVs over 6,000ton is once again reactionary to industry requirements because the vessel for which this push started will be in the water before the end of the year. Presently, there is not one mariner in the US fleet that has an unlimited Master license and the skill-set to operate that vessel. That person doesn’t exist YET! Several of us are working on management level courses. I’ll be finished and testing for Chief Mate within the month. Capt.Lee just got his 2nd Mate, but none of us will be where we need to be by the end of the year.<br><br>Chances are a select few will be grandfathered after review at Coast Guard Headquarter by Mike Blair and company. Just my guess based on 16 years of experience…and a program will shorty follow. By grandfathered, I dont mean "given:. I’m sure the management level testing will come into play.<br><br>The only thing that I’m totally sure of…A 85 Million dollar vessel isn’t going to just sit there waiting on a Coast Guard Approved program.</P>

<P align=justify>Oldsalt- I would have to agree with the Mate OSV training. It will bypass a lot of STCW classes required now for unrestricted 500/1600 ton Mates license. I don’t understand why you would want to do the mate’s license though. I guess things have changed, because in the past you went from 100 ton Master to 500 ton Master, with just two years sea time as 100 ton master. You had to test for the 500 ton Master, then with 2 more years you were upgraded to 1600 ton Master with no further testing. This was of course the old way. <br><br>One difference between Mate OSV and 500 ton Mate is you will be restricted to vessels defined as an OSV. Which will not be a problem for most people, my Dad and most mariners spent their entire career on OSV’s. The major difference is the time and money involved in getting an unrestricted license VS a Mate OSV which will be issued 500 ton Mate OSV 3000 ITC. You don’t have to take flashing light, magnetic and gyro compass, basic ship handling, etc, etc, All the classes required by an individual attempting to get his 3rd Mate’s license from the deck. Mate OSV only has to do the basics, Water survival, Radar, Fire fighting, GMDSS. In addition to the STCW training there is a MATE OSV training record with 56 practical assessments that must be mastered. Some are as simple as using a GPS, putting the vessel on autopilot, to docking and maneuvering the vessel in and out of port. The gap between Mate OSV and 500 ton Mate can be closed later if you so choose to reach for that. The difference is you will be getting Mate or Master OSV pay while attending the STCW classes required to have the OSV restriction taken off your license, instead of AB pay. One thing I am un clear about though is you should be able to go directly to a 500 ton Master instead of Mate. I guess what I am trying to say is you should be able to go for 500 ton Master OSV. I don’t see why not. You will have to be on a supply boat though with a Coast Guard approved assesor to sign off the OSV book.<br><br>As far as prep classes you need not go to a school. You can order all you need and study in the comfort of your own home or at work. Mate OSV tests are almost identical to the 1600 ton Mate/1600 ton Master/3rd Mate Unlimited. With that said, Murphy books are a good paper based tool. Q & A in a book. This will run you about 250-300 bucks. Then Robert Plant has Lapware.org which is 50 bucks a month with all the online Q & A you can handle. They also will answer any questions you may have through e-mail. They have examples of the problems worked out that helps exlain things. Last but not least is Joe Lobo’s Deck License program which will be the best 50-60 bucks you ever spent. You install it on your computer. It has tutorials and examples, Q & A. It is incredible. You need a Formula for the Mariner, a decent calculator, A Nautical almanac (Azimuth’s and Amplitudes) for Coast Guard testing, Tides and currents for CG testing, Stability and Trim for CG testing. You need some Maneuvering Boards for terrestrial problems and bearing problems and the three block charts for CG testing (5 bucks a piece). Also the light list and Coast Pilot for CG testing. You need a bowditch for the tables in the back used in amplitudes and bearing problems. All in all around 500-600 dollar investment on training material, but a lot of personal time studying. To go to a school and study may be hard to find, but there are classes out there, but they will be using the same material you can get on your own. This is my personal experience with testing and I will be using these exact study guides when I test next year for Chief Mate. I used them for my 3rd Mate AGT. I studied for 7 weeks, went to the Coast Guard and took all the tests and passed in one day. These tools work.</P>
<P align=justify>Once you get the license you can complete an approved Large OSV program which will enable you to run on vessels over 3000 tons ITC up to 6000 tons ITC OSV. 84 day program similar to the Mate OSV training you will have to do to get the Mate’s license. You have to complete the book and have it signed by an approved assessor. It can be done Oldsalt. It may not be as easy as it once was, but if you want to do it, it can be done. The easiest way to start is one class at a time and don’t stop until it is over. You have to take the first step, once you are half way there most people won’t look back. Good Luck.</P>

A correction to my earlier post. My references to there being no approved programs to increase tonnage to 6,000 GT ITC should have said there are no progrmas to go ABOVE 6,000 GT ITC.

<P>We’ve posted on this subject on another board. You’re right, the CG will cave to industry requirements on licenses. It started well before 1997. I believe the engineers on the Exxon Sunshine State were allowed to set for an “upgrade” when they welded the tug to the barge. Also, some of the mates on the Fred H. Moore were allowed to set for second mate and given chief mate of research vessels of 2500 ton for the Mobil Search and 'Nelson. Lately, I’ve seen several “vessel specific” engineer’s licenses for the dredges.</P>
<P>Capt Lee</P>
<P>So the 500 ton is the highest deck license you can set for at the CG without required courses, other than radar, GMDSS, MCP, BRM??</P>

<P>Injunear- I am not saying that. I have only seen a few OSV licenses, and the ones I saw said 500 ton mate OSV 3000 ITC. I really do not know the answer to that, but I am a little familiar with the process. I am sure as time goes on I will see more.</P>

The 500-ton mate license requires the same courses as third-mate unlimited.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MATE OSV pmc, JEEZ and that does not require the same classes as third mate. And BTW when is MPT going to step up and teach some management level STCW classes? I Like Fort Lauderdale way better than Virginia or Maryland. They show the classes, just no dates. I asked them last summer and they said in the fall. I asked them this spring and they say this summer. Nothing. MPT in my opinion caters to the yachting industry. Next summer it won’t matter.

<span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: ‘Times New Roman’; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA]MPT does not have approval for any management level courses, nor have they ever submitted any for approval. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t host any courses, it is possible that they are working on having one of the very few others who have approval for the courses come in and give them at their location.<br><br>The scarcity of these courses is probably due the Coast Guard’s implementation of STCW having stalled before courses for Master 500/1600 GRT were required. The Coast Guard has been unable to get the rule making needed for this started, DHS only takes a limited number of regulatory changes, and STCW thus far has not been given a high enough priority to make it on the docket.<br><br>That leaves only unlimited tonnage Chief Mate (oceans) applicants needing to take the courses at present. With many of them getting the courses from MMP or AMO, there’s not much of a market to induce a non-union school to put the courses together.<br></span><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training & Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]<font color=#3354aa>James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</font></A>

<P>Capt.Lee,<br> How can you say Fort Lauderdale is better that Maryland when you haven’t taken a course at MITAGS? I think MITAGS is above the rest, but I haven’t been to Virginia…so I’m not going to discount that school. STAR-CENTER was good, but the recent change it attitude reguarding non-union students took away any positive that they ever had.<br><br>Mr.Cavo,<br> It is a shame that there are few schools that teach the required classes. You would think that with so few schools, that they would be able to get on the same page and not have classes that last 2 weeks here, but only one week there…and assessments spread all over the place. Absolutely not congruency… making it hard for the mariner.</P>

I did not say the school was better knuckle head. I said Fort Lauderdale was nicer than Virginia or Maryland. I don’t have any idea how MITAGS is, but I heard that it ws the best one to go to from you and others as far as facilities. I swear you have a reading comprehension problem. Dyslexic Comprehension. I am talking geography not facility. It is closer to where I live and I love the Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood, FL.<br><br>MPT may not have approval letters for the managaement classes or class schedules for those classes, but they do have a price list of some management level classes. I guess they are a little ahead of themselves.

<P>Lee,<br> I thought you learned by now, but GUESS NOT. My reading comprehension is usually coupled with common sense, and the knowledge that you really prefer Fort Lauderdale due to your addiction to gamling (Hard Rock) and living in crew houses for 15 dollars a day for the opprotunity to bunk with a Australian zit face 19 year old looking for a yacht job…that might not necessarily be a female.<br></P>
<P>FYI, Patron tastes the same in all 50 states my friend.</P>

She wasn’t Australian and it wasn’t me she was sweet on! And I think people use the word addiction too often. I would use the word enjoy or my hobby is cards. Something along those lines. Although I have to admit that winning money is nice.

You would use the word enjoy? When you get out of class at STAR-CENTER and go straight to the Hard Rock Casino, then back to STAR-CENTER the next day with the same clothes on, I would say A-D-D-I-C-T-I-O-N. Something alond those lines my friend. <br><br><STRONG>“If you gotta win, you gotta problem”<br><br>GAMBLERS ANONYMOUS INTERNATIONAL DIRECTORY<br></STRONG><br>St. Lucie/Martin/Broward/Palm Beach/Miami Area <br>Hotline Number: (800) 891-1740<br>Orlando/North Central Florida Hotline Number: (800) 397-9843<br>Tampa Hotline Number: (866) 442-8622<br>Sarasota Hotline Number: (866) 442-8622<br>Naples/Ft. Myers/N. Ft. Myers/Charlotte Hotline Number: (866) 442-8622<br><br>I have one question. When was the last time you played cards for money? I know you been at work for a month now. Just curious.

Last night…and WON!

<P>Capt Lee<br>The reason I asked about the highest license obtainable by self study is because of the mind-set of the crews I’ve seen in the past few years. They’ve all been brainwashed to think they have to go to one of the schools for ALL rates and licenses. It seems the CG is pushing the same agenda.<br><br>Mr Cavo seems to respond to queries on this board faster than any question I’ve asked the Houston REC or NMC. </P>