A Call to Action

Maritime Academy USMMA
41

First cuttle fIsh I do want to thank you for your post attempting to defend the validity of KP. It is nice that someone has enough courage to step up but I do have one first recommendation. Please use paragraphs.

My comments to your post now below and with respect for your trying. I will try not to be too scathing,

The mission of the Academy does not stop at graduating licensed mates and engineers. Rather, the mission includes having the USA ready to support overseas troops in war times.

Both Desert Shield/Storm and Iraqi Freedom did not require the "call up of KP graduates. Especially in the case of the former the crisis of manpower was severe but because a call up was not required we shall never know how well if would have gone. I suspect many fine KP alums would have come up with excuses why they couldn’t participate and would have been granted waivers by MarAd/Navy. Since the commirment is only for eight years after graduation it means that most called up would have been junior officers while the dire shortage was in the senior officer ranks. Still it would have been interesting to see if all the “planning” done had been woth a shit or nor!

In spite of a diminishing of US flagged ships, the Academy graduates and graduates from the maritime schools do find jobs and do support the US maritime industry. In addition, the Academy and the maritime colleges produce leaders in the industry.

You just proved that KP doesn’t produce anyone which a state run school cannot produce with little cost to the taxpayer. Remember that basis to my conentions has principally been why should the taxpayers fund the education of a person to the tune of $360k when we get nothing unique and special for that expense.

Some of the most hateful discussion on this thread smacks of folks to the tune of coulda, shoulda, woulda!

This discussion is hardly hateful but rather it is reasoned with both passion and conviction in what I believe. I present arguments which no vaunted KP’er has been able to rebutt. I have no idea of what you’re saying in the 2nd part of your sentence.

While I respect all who have far more knowledge of the industry than I do and all the various means of acquiring that knowledge, to remain competitive, knowledgeable, and ready for what the global maritime world can throw at us, Kings Point and all the maritime schools remain valid.

Not germain to this discussion. The US is woefiully behind the rest of the industrial (and a good bit of the nonindustrial) world in matters maritime but having a KP does nothing to help this. GMATS was the one part of KP which actually helped but MarAd is pulling the plug on it. Rather if we want to adopt the highest technology in the US Merchant Marine, the US Federal Goverment introduce incentives for private industry to bring that level of technology to our fleet. Start by making all the steamships still operating in the US fleet go to Alang and be replaced with new foreign built ships of the highest technology provided those ships are permitted a license if in the coastwise trade which wiil expire unless an equivalent vessel is built in the US.

The US should stay abreast of the latest technology and like it or not, those who come from Kings Point still maintain a significant respect among the industry, particularly at the highest levels.

KP grads are revered by other KP grads…hmm sounds very parochial to me and a somewhat secret society of ring knockers. In the maritime industry I work in being a KP graduate means nothing and in many cases is a negative based on the reputation that KP grads have for being arrogant with an attitude of superiority.

That is NOT to say that individuals don’t still need to earn respect, however, a person who has graduated with an engineering degree or B.S. degree from Kings Point and earning that respect does seem to result in some pretty extraordinary individuals and business leaders in the maritime industry.

Are you saying the somehow KP’ers are deserving of more respect that state school grads? If so, please support that statement? Training someone to become a “leader in the maritime industry” is not valid to support continued taxpayer funding of the USMMA. It is supposed to graduate merchant marine officersfor " Rather, the mission includes having the USA ready to support overseas troops in war times." Tanker brokers in Stamford do not support this mission and do not deserve my taxdollars to fund their educations.

While I know it is may not always be the case, on the surface the detractors seem a wee bit jealous of the accomplishments that seem to be easier for a Kings Point grad compared to other means for advancing within the industry.

Utter nonsense and does not support a thing. Justify for me $86M to keep that place open for a years and $360k to graduate one person?

The USA needs these high achievers and the institution to stay in the game, be prepared for the future and changes that come with it and relative to other government expenditures, Kings Point is a bargain for accomplishing just that!

OMG! You have got to be kidding with this one. Please tell me you are or try to support this ridiculous comment?

While the recent dismay of the current regiment and honor board may be disheartening to outsiders and the regiment, there is something to be said for tradition at the school, in the industry, in corporations and IMHO, the industry and Kings Point will prevail.

This argument is now getting so old and threadbare that is doesn’t warrant being attempted again. I will never accept the worthiness of spending of $86M a year (of money the US doesn’t have) to support some “tradition”. That is NOT supportable to anyone but another KP’er. If there ever was a mutual admiration society in the US, it is the graduates and midshipment at the USMMA. I once thought the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences was bad for self appreciation, but now there’s the USMMAAA to steal that spotlight!

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42

What I meant by being prepared for war is getting troops and supplies over seas, not providing Navy personnel. It takes ships to support our troops over seas. ’

I tried not to say that a KP grad deserves respect just by being a KP grad. What I meant is that the Academy has prepared graduates to earn it and there are some great individuals who come from there. I do not believe they are only revered by fellow KP grads. That is too broad a statement. I also do not mean the every single grad is such an achiever. I too have heard about arrogance of KPers, and tho’ there may be a few I do not think that means ALL! It sounds like sour grapes from those who choose a different path to get their license.

My words about leaders in the industry and how having a US Academy was more about the USA showing the maritime world that the USA can, does, and will continue to be leaders in the global shipping industry AND with the full backing of the US government. I think both the Academy and the maritime schools have a role to play in that sense. KP provides an opportunity for those who would not otherwise be able to afford a maritime school and is very competitive, so, out of many you get some outstanding individuals at a relatively low cost. Getting into the maritime colleges is not very competitive. Showing the world you can be is worth something.

KP is and has been supported over and over again by the maritime industry, if not needed, why do big shipping companies hire cadets to ship out on their commercial vessels during their time at KP? If a business did not need them, why pay them for a full year at sea? It must be a profitable business decision to hire them.

In response to Sweat-n-Grease, maybe a new requirement for KP graduates should be a foreign language, such as Chinese, Spanish, or Arabic, not a change in location. I am a glass half full kinda gal and don’t see the sudden demise of all US flagged ships any time soon. I do recognize that this has been a topic/issue for many years, and yet, KP prevails.

43

Sorry, Cuttles. The only area where KP “prevails” is in acquiring tax money through its inside track at MarAd.

"Showing the world you can be … " (whatever) is hardly worth the cost. The world doesn’t notice or care and the institution is quickly becoming a national embarrassment and a domestic joke.

The USA is not a “leader” in the maritime world and KP (or at least its alumni who mismanage MarAd and US maritime policy) is responsible for much of that situation. KP is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

44

So can someone inform of what happened with this Drug incident? Can not find any information on it.

45

[QUOTE=cuttle fish;64631]In response to Sweat-n-Grease, maybe a new requirement for KP graduates should be a foreign language, such as Chinese, Spanish, or Arabic,[/QUOTE]

J’ai étudié le français à tout Kings Point il ya 50 ans.
Je suis bon avec le français cadien, travaillé avec de nombreux, s’entendait bien, aimé leur cuisine.

[QUOTE=cuttle fish;64631]not a change in location.[/QUOTE]

I was being sardonic. China has a vibrant Merchant Marine, ours has dwindled to near nothing. 95% of all maritime cargo in and out of the USA is carried on foreign flag bottoms. How can we have a US Merchant Marine Academy without a US Merchant Marine? I’d like your opinion.

[QUOTE=cuttle fish;64631]I am a glass half full kinda gal and don’t see the sudden demise of all US flagged ships any time soon. I do recognize that this has been a topic/issue for many years, and yet, KP prevails.[/QUOTE]

It is not my intention to dampen your enthusiasm. This is an adult conversation as well it should.

46

What I meant by being prepared for war is getting troops and supplies over seas, not providing Navy personnel. It takes ships to support our troops over seas. ’

The only way the government could MAKE graduates serve in wartime is under their Naval Reserve obligation. They have no standing to do it at all as civilians and btw, civilan merchant mariners have always stepped up the plate in wartime to support the troops by “delivering the goods”

I tried not to say that a KP grad deserves respect just by being a KP grad. What I meant is that the Academy has prepared graduates to earn it and there are some great individuals who come from there.

great?!? how exactly please?

I do not believe they are only revered by fellow KP grads.

then who exactly?

I too have heard about arrogance of KPers, and tho’ there may be a few I do not think that means ALL! It sounds like sour grapes from those who choose a different path to get their license.

Nonsense, every graduate of a state school or hawsepiper has every right to feel justifiably proud of their own achievements. Somehow KP grads all seem to think they are special and the rest of us are all jealous of that. BULLSHIT TO THAT MA’AM

My words about leaders in the industry and how having a US Academy was more about the USA showing the maritime world that the USA can, does, and will continue to be leaders in the global shipping industry AND with the full backing of the US government. I think both the Academy and the maritime schools have a role to play in that sense.

The rest of the world doesn’t give one rat’s ass about KP or the fact the US has a federal maritime academy. The rest of the world doesn’t even care about the US maritime industry unless they can get in on the MSP (Maersk Shipping), get Dod contracts (Maesk Shipping) or get preference cargo (Maersk Shipping)

KP provides an opportunity for those who would not otherwise be able to afford a maritime school.

I don’t need to fund a very expensive education for someone who can’t afford one and that completely dis’es each and every mariner who does fund his or hers own training at a state school or pays for their own training needed to obtain/ungrade their licenses. Many incur huge student loans they are forced to pay off for years afterwards. KP is too EXPENSIVE to be a run as a charity…if we want to be charitable, then MarAd should use the money it costs to run KP to completely fund the educations of 5000 mariners per year. I’ve provided the numbers in previous posts on this subject.

and is very competitive, so, out of many you get some outstanding individuals at a relatively low cost.

What on earth are you talking about?!? Competitive? Low cost? $360k to graduate on third mate/engr. at KP vs. maybe $75k at a state school! Same license, same degree, same value to the goverment in wartime, same ability to serve as a “leader”

Getting into the maritime colleges is not very competitive. Showing the world you can be is worth something.

Not supportable, not germain to keeping KP open and dissing every state school grad or hawsepiper at the same time. All bow down to KP’ers as they are special because it was “hard” to be accepted. How many KP’ers even knew what the maritime industry was before they decided to go? How many went because they didn’t get into Annapolis or other real military academy. State school students choose their career paths ahead of time.

KP is and has been supported over and over again by the maritime industry, if not needed, why do big shipping companies hire cadets to ship out on their commercial vessels during their time at KP? If a business did not need them, why pay them for a full year at sea? It must be a profitable business decision to hire them.

I believe that under MSP they are required to carry cadets and besides what about state school cadets when they commercial ship? Not supportable at all, but good try.

In response to Sweat-n-Grease, maybe a new requirement for KP graduates should be a foreign language, such as Chinese, Spanish, or Arabic, not a change in location.

Every American college graduate should speak a second language as being unilingual makes us less competitive in the world but this is not germain to the subject. Does every KP grad speak a second language proficiently at graduation? Didn’t think so but every foreign maritime school ensures their grads speak near fluent English at graduation.

I am a glass half full kinda gal and don’t see the sudden demise of all US flagged ships any time soon. I do recognize that this has beena topic/issue for many years,

Still doesn’t mean we need a KP…keep trying

and yet, KP prevails.

No ma’am…KP keeps getting funded by Congress! There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE! The very words of the head of the USMMAAA stand as proof to that. Never question the validity or even the problems within the walls of the compound. Just ensure that the MONEY KEEPS COMING! KP, its staff and faculty, its grads and its students has become so utterly disfunctional as to be a perfect family for reality TV! And it is time that this horrible banal show to be cancelled!

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47

I am going to carefully weigh in on this. Partial disclosure - I am a 4C at an east coast State maritime academy. So apologies in advance if others feel I don’t have enough skin in the game to warrant credibility.

I am sensing a bit of arrogance on the part of those with Federal Academy ties. I infer that only the best go to the military academy’s - West Point, Annapolis, New London, or Colorado. Those unable to go there apply to Kings Point. Those who can’t get into KP default to the lowly state schools.
As for me, I only applied to east coast State Academys, not because I could not get into the Federal schools, but because I was not sure I wanted to commit to a military career. A lot can change in 4 years and I felt it important to keep all options open.

With regard to the future of USMMA, if it really is a dysfunctional institution and an economic drain on the federal budget, shut it down. That may sound harsh to the alum and current students but things change. A USCG license can be earned at a State School just as well as USMMA. If I were a congressman looking to trim the Fed budget, I would take a hard look at the 86 million going to KP. Why couldn’t KP be shut down, send current cadets to the State schools - with a full scholarship - until they complete their studies? This would cost MUCH less than 86 mil/yr and not harm those cadets already in the program.

Maybe I am being niave - but if Kings Point is no longer providing taxpayer value, why keep it on life support?

48

I am not convinced that USMMA is dysfunctional or a drain on the federal budget. The funding issue could be argued for all of the Service Academies, there are plenty of other paths to go to college and on to the armed services, why put that drain on the federal budget when it can be had for less at state colleges or other paths? It is not true or fair to say that those who go to KP only go because they did not get into one of the other services academies. Again, not all KP grads are arrogant or think they are better than anyone else.

I also cannot see how keeping KP open results in “dissing” other state schools or hawspipers. Why fund 5000 mariners when part of the reasons stated for shutting down KP is because there aren’t enough maritime jobs to support the current number of grads. KP does prevail and does keep getting funded by Congress.

49

Fair enough Cuttle.

I really have no direct experience with USMMA or its cadets and am only responding to what I read in this thread.

I don’t sense any rivalry between our state school and USMMA but there is a ton of good natured rivalry between the various State schools.

50

I am not convinced that USMMA is dysfunctional or a drain on the federal budget.

Fair enough, you can feel anyway you like, bur if this is a debate on those points then you are very lonely in this forum I fear.

The funding issue could be argued for all of the Service Academies, there are plenty of other paths to go to college and on to the armed services, why put that drain on the federal budget when it can be had for less at state colleges or other paths?

Of course, but you obviously didn’t ready the memo posted in earlier threads. The “SERVICE” Academies each provide educations to students who become officers in each respective uniformed service. The closest KP comes to that is to commission its grads into the Naval Reserve. The taxpayers of the US of A do not need to spend $86M a year for a US Naval Reserve Academy.

It is not true or fair to say that those who go to KP only go because they did not get into one of the other services academies.

Maybe not 100% but most did in fact apply to the other Academies first and those schools would have been their first choice. How many even knew what the US maritime industry was before they decided to attend? Did you? Did you have any ties or other experience in matters maritime before you chose to go? I believe many state school students do in fact know what the maritime industry was before they picked their path. I know several and all had some prior experience with ship or boats before they went to their respective schools.

Again, not all KP grads are arrogant or think they are better than anyone else.

You obviously have not worked in the industry on ships. Get out there and when you come back, make that same statement here.

I also cannot see how keeping KP open results in “dissing” other state schools or hawspipers.

No ma’am, your statements dissed the state school people and hawsepipers yet keeping KP open and funded would make me angry when I would have to take out yet another student loan when a KPer gets the “free ride”. Even worse to know that what it cost the taxpayer to keep a KPer in school for one year would cover my whole four years of education!

Why fund 5000 mariners when part of the reasons stated for shutting down KP is because there aren’t enough maritime jobs to support the current number of grads.

So why on earth does it then make any sense to keep KP open? Your very statement points to the proven redundancy that KP really is at huge cost to taxpayers. My point was that the $86M a year that goes to keep KP open coiuld fund up to 5000 others. Didn’t say we need that many more entering the industry and I for one only want only enough grads to come oout of all the schools or up the pipe. Too many entrants drives down wages (hint the AMO model)

KP does prevail and does keep getting funded by Congress.

Utter nonsense and foolishness coming from one that is drinking the KP Koolaid right out of the fountain. Please confirm if you are a current midshipwoman at KP?

51

[I]Again, not all KP grads are arrogant or think they are better than anyone else. [/I]

[QUOTE=c.captain;64697]Nonsense, you obviously have not worked in the industry on ships. Get out there and when you come back, make that same statement here.[/QUOTE]

Hello …

52

Painting all applicants and all graduates with the same broad brush is arrogance too. I don’t think, c. captain, that you have facts to back up your theory that the majority of applicants do not have KP as their first choice. It is not true or fair to say so. State maritime schools are also currently federally funded so the “cost” to the tax payer mentioned does not paint the entire picture. The budget for KP, as stated before, is not huge and tho’ most on this thread and I disagree on the topic, having the opportunity for some competitive high school graduates to go to KP, is a bargain relative to the Federal budget. Attending a State Maritime school or any college is not in the cards for some bright high school graduates due to cost. A little harsh to say attendees receive charity, does that include all the current students at all the Service Academies? All the Service Academies, including Kings Point present an opportunity for those who choose it. I do not exactly get the difference made on this thread between those that want an armed forces career compared to a maritime career as far which ones deserve funding.

I am not a student and have never been a sailor, so you are correct, I have not “been out there”. I do know folks that are and have been, whose background range from hawsepipe, state schools, and KP. I also don’t pretend to know as much as many on the thread about the industry. That said, I remain a KP supporter (and stopped drinking koolaid a long time ago :slight_smile: ).

53

I don’t think, c. captain, that you have facts to back up your theory that the majority of applicants do not have KP as their first choice. It is not true or fair to say so.

So you are telling us that majority of KP midshippersons knew what the maritime industry was before they were accepted and that they made an early conscious decision to become a licensed officer in the merchant marine long before applying to KP? Didn’t think so.

State maritime schools are also currently federally funded so the “cost” to the tax payer mentioned does not paint the entire picture.

Wrong, the state martitime academies are not federally supported except for their training ships which are owned by MarAD and loaned to the various schools.

The budget for KP, as stated before, is not huge and tho’ most on this thread and I disagree on the topic, having the opportunity for some competitive high school graduates to go to KP, is a bargain relative to the Federal budget.

Eightysixmilliondollars is not huge! Unbelievable that you would make such a statement! Maybe when compared to obscene DoD spending perhaps but in the real world $86M buys alot of cops or firefighters or teachers or whatever else helps ALL people and not just a miniscule select special interest group.

Attending a State Maritime school or any college is not in the cards for some bright high school graduates due to cost.

KP is not a charity case for the underprivileged nor should it be. By what you say, every student at KP must be from a low income family and that they were able to prove that they were accepted to another school but couldn’t afford it? Think of how many 4 year degrees $86M can buy at public universities for the poor. I’d say at least 5000 but maybe double that!

A little harsh to say attendees receive charity, does that include all the current students at all the Service Academies?

All the other “Service Academies” are funded by their respective “armed service” and whether they too are needed in 2012 is not germain to this discussion. Do not use that smoke screen to hid behind.

All the Service Academies, including Kings Point present an opportunity for those who choose it. I do not exactly get the difference made on this thread between those that want an armed forces career compared to a maritime career as far which ones deserve funding.

A maritime career is a “civilian” career and not a “military” one. By your logic we should have a highway engineering, railroad administration and air transportation academies as well. They are all transportation related just like the merchant marine. Should we be likewise funding the educations for 3000 of those students in those disciplines…hmmm?

I am not a student and have never been a sailor, so you are correct, I have not “been out there”.

I’d then advise that you reserve your comments to the “All Academies” forum. You are find it at www.serviceacademyforums.com

I do know folks that are and have been, whose background range from hawsepipe, state schools, and KP. I also don’t pretend to know as much as many on the thread about the industry. That said, I remain a KP supporter (and stopped drinking koolaid a long time ago).

I know people who work in the medical and motion picture industries but I do not go to their respective forums to weigh in on subjects to which I know little.

What exactly is your connection to the USMMA? The wife of an alum? The mother of a student? It’s got to be something?

54

Again, not all KP grads are arrogant or think they are better than anyone else.

To my good friend Swear-n-Grease,

My apologies to yourself for lumping you in with the lot of KP freeloaders and Annapolis wannabes. I know you are a true seaman and a testiment to what KP used to be…a man from the old school. The USMMA has in fact produced many excellent maritime officers. I know one quite well and he is a man I would sail with to anywhere. An all around fine shipmate and first rate mind. He gets the greatest amusement from my posts on here and we have many lively discussions on the subject.

All that being said, the USMMA of 2012 produces not one graduate with greater abilities, knowledge or credentials than any of the six other state sponsored academies and at $360K per they are a terrible value to the taxpayers. It’s one thing if they go active duty after graduation but something entirely else if they “Take the Money and Run”!

55

c.captain
I did not say that low income folks should be paid to go to college. Your the one who mentioned charity! Your logic at times makes no sense! KP presents an opportunity for all, no matter their background or social economic status. It is an opportunity, competitive, and a choice. It is a one of the paths for a career in the maritime industry and, I repeat, there may be more to attending KP then just getting a license. That is my opinion and I do not hold any faith that I can change yours.

The other Service Academies are not funded by their respective own armed service (unless I never knew that the branches of the military were profit organizations, that would be news to me) the funding source is the same as KP, by taxes and Congress. Honestly! You have yet to suggest why they do not fall under your same logic as charity cases for getting a college degree!

No, I disagree, my logic does not suggest that there be other “civilian” academies. There are other avenues for those wanting engineering degrees that are not maritime, federally backed scholarships, merit and needs based scholarship, etc. Some of that funding is already in place and also paid for by taxes and appropriated by Congress.

Oh, and if since I have not “been out there”, if this thread is only open to those that have or are, then ask the administrators to boot me out! Go ahead and get me banned if you do not want to hear from me any more. Not only is your logic that ALL KPers are arrogant, now you say someone’s opinion has to come from an industry member… Go figure, that sounds a 'lil arrogant to me. Whose koolaid have you been ingesting lately…hmmm? :rolleyes:

56

My oh my Ms Cuttle Fish

I do seem to have you spinning round and round and round. Anyway, if it will make you feel better I will just allow you to stay right here where you are hanging out in the breeze so to speak. Feel free to keep posting on this topic if you care to but if you do know that you are open to retort.

I’ve made all the rebuttals to your looney statements I need make at this time and I grow tired of the endless thrust and parry riposte so will bid you adieu till the next time.

Y’all come back now.

57

This very juicy tid bit picked up this afternoon from serviceacademyforums.com

My child does not associate with the two staff members who abuse students but my child also does not drink so it may be easier to avoid their lures and advances. The use of the quasi military rank structure to pressure students into satisfying the urges of older employees does not exist in civilian schools so at least the threat from that approach is removed. As for calling the FBI my comment was to demonstrate that the current administration is not taking care of the students. My child isn’t in danger from these two people but maybe yours is so perhaps an external review would be beneficial. Regardless of that if I have the correct information one of them is being fired or has at least been kicked off campus which should reduce the danger to the vulnerable. Now if the other one is given the same punishment maybe there will be far less worry for the students. Time to go after that one and help out the students.

Indeed my child is departing the academy to a school with much more impressive ratings. If anyone else is interested the other maritime schools are well aware of the turmoil, distress, and complete disintegration of the academy and have some very interesting offers. They may fit your needs should you be interested and for at least us they were competitive offers to other colleges. Other schools were interested to hear of the madness and had some very good data, programs, and procedures that appear to successfully address the issues plaguing the academy as they are not present in those civilian institutions. Best of luck to the students unable or unwilling to depart for other opportunities and future potential students need to realize many other schools successfully operate as businesses and do not tolerate this government condoned nonsense. Once the details of KP and other schools are compared the academy just isn’t competitive anymore.

Doesn’t the image of rats leaving a sinking ship come to mind?

58

I may not always agree with you but I and my shipmates also definitely get amusement from your posts. :wink:

59

[QUOTE=c.captain;64714]To my good friend Swear-n-Grease,

My apologies to yourself for lumping you in with the lot of KP freeloaders and Annapolis wannabes. I know you are a true seaman and a testiment to what KP used to be…a man from the old school. The USMMA has in fact produced many excellent maritime officers. I know one quite well and he is a man I would sail with to anywhere. An all around fine shipmate and first rate mind. He gets the greatest amusement from my posts on here and we have many lively discussions on the subject.

All that being said, the USMMA of 2012 produces not one graduate with greater abilities, knowledge or credentials than any of the six other state sponsored academies and at $360K per they are a terrible value to the taxpayers. It’s one thing if they go active duty after graduation but something entirely else if they “Take the Money and Run”![/QUOTE]

No apologies necessary, it’s my sad fate to agree with you. I so wish it did not come down to this. I look back and understand why I did not quit, it has nothing to do with Kings Point, it has everything to do with a young man who should have taken the advise of a Chief Engineer who experienced WWII and saw the future.

60

I have a few words to post. To my Kings Point class mates who email me of their contempt for FDR and the Democrats - How Dare You!
I need not explain. I will not attend our 50th. KP is no longer a Merchant Marine Academy. Just what it is today is not the fault of the KP Cadets.
Hang on as long as the bucks flow in, USMMAAA.
Need to edit, say, about that republican Congressman I read about, and his association with the USMMAAA, isn’t he totally against worthless government spending? He says he is, look at his web site.
How some folks cherry pick!