I may not always agree with you but I and my shipmates also definitely get amusement from your posts
If you are sincere in that KPEng, then I am honored by the compliment. It is nice to know someone here is amused by my rants. Lord knows many here would like to take their pointy sticks out when I get going on a tear.
Say hey to your shipmates for me!
[QUOTE=c.captain;64734]If you are sincere in that KPEng, then I am honored by the compliment. It is nice to know someone here is amused by my rants. Lord knows many here would like to take their pointy sticks out when I get going on a tear.
Say hey to your shipmates for me![/QUOTE]
I have the feeling a lot of what we are posting is resonating. The bomb throwers are gone, for the most part, and other more experienced Merchant Seaman are responding, including KP grads, a few anyway. I still cling to the hope KP can be rescued, but when I look at the picture it paints a sorry story of KP simply trying to limp along. No KP grad addressed my take on the USMMAAA not fighting to save our US Maritime Shipping Companies, rather it seems they render support to change KP mission, make the shoe fit so to speak. I’m open and above board, most know who I am or should by now, so all understand I am not playing around. I am serious.
KPEngineer, does this post amuse you?
I’m always genuine. If I sincerely disliked you (tough to do since I haven’t actually met you) then I just wouldn’t say anything. And yes, we were just talking about you a couple days ago … Not to feed that massive hawsepiper ego or anything 
I and my academy shipmates understand your points of view, it’s just that your passion with which you make them comes across as a bit over the top at times. That is where the “KP hater” label gets thrown out. We just don’t get why you would argue argue your points so forcefully. $86 million is no chump change but in the age of Trillion dollar deficits it’s like the spare change I pull out of the dryer.
You will find a lot of agreement from a lot of Alumni regarding the militarization of KP.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;64736]I have the feeling a lot of what we are posting is resonating. The bomb throwers are gone, for the most part, and other more experienced Merchant Seaman are responding, including KP grads, a few anyway. I still cling to the hope KP can be rescued, but when I look at the picture it paints a sorry story of KP simply trying to limp along. No KP grad addressed my take on the USMMAAA not fighting to save our US Maritime Shipping Companies, rather it seems they render support to change KP mission, make the shoe fit so to speak. I’m open and above board, most know who I am or should by now, so all understand I am not playing around. I am serious.
KPEngineer, does this post amuse you?[/QUOTE]
I certainly agree with you. In order to make KP relevant in the modern merchant marine, the US merchant marine needs to be restructured to reflect the international nature that exists today. When I came ashore and started with ABS some 25 years ago, less than 40 percent of my work was onboard US flag vessels. The structure of most crews were Filipino/Chinese and later Eastern European. Officers were a mix of all European nations, as well as Indian, Korean and also some Filipino, regardless of flag. I always thought it odd that I almost never ran across a US citizen in the wheel house or engine room as an officer. There were lots of Brits, Norwegians and other Europeans. Most recieved tax breaks to work at sea from their home countries.
The mission from MARAD for the US Merchant Marine has been, for several years, to act as an auxiliary of the military, focusing on ready deployment vessels instead of creating a practical, viable US flag fleet, or to allow US seamen and specifically officers to take part in the international merchant fleet. The sad thing is that now, when there are massive deployments, the US lacks both the capable vessels and the trained personnel to take part in a sealift operation. Instead, much of the cargo is moved by foreign vessels with foreign crews. Often when the MARAD ships sit at the docks.
I understand that, for the most part, KPers are not automatically given respect at sea, and I agree with that. I know that in my seagoing experience, many of my classmates didn’t last very long at sea. It was also not uncommon that when other crew members found out where I earned my license that they were either surprised, or accused me of lying. I can say, however, that ashore, being from KP carried much more weight. Now, I am not a ring knocker (nor do I even know where my ring is these days) and I haven’t always been a KP supporter. Having gone there has certainly helped my career. The program, at least the one that I went through more than 30 years ago, certainly provided me with an opportunity to learn skills that I otherwise would not have had.
State schools do a good job, but more and more their licensed maritime programs are shrinking while their non license programs grow.
I do find that some of the problems that have come to light in the past year or so are not necessarily new. Even when I attended, there were issues with the Honor Board. There were midshipmen tossed out for drugs. There were some that seemed to get unwarranted breaks when caught breaking rules/codes. These problems plague any institution with young adults.
More and more students there now seem to want to use the school as a fall back for one of the military academies in order to gain a commission. Less and less seem to want to have a seagoing career, and that can be understandable with the current state of the US Merchant Marine. I do think that military discipline does, however, play a role in training young adults and feel that there should be some aspect to that at any maritime officers’ training program.
Overall, I am onboard with Sweat-and-Grease; but I feel that the sea change needs to come not to just KP, but to MARAD and the way the US Merchant Marine operates in the modern world. I have felt this way for some time.
Excellent post cmakin, when I hear a Kings point graduate mentioned I turned my back on the Academy I remind that person that it was Kings Point who turn its back on me. Like you I also saw the US Maritime Fleet of private shipping companies fall one by one and I did try to engage some of my contemporaries to do something, write something, call your Congressman, call the alumni association (which I did to no avail). So here we have a situation where US merchant vessels could be used but, well, we just don’t have a fleet of ships flying the United States Flag these days. This didn’t simply happen over night. So, Kings Point, the Alumni Association, and MARAD, the ball is in your court. Is it possible these organizations simply caved in to the seemingly constant destiny of the United States Merchant Marine? We were caught with our pants down at the beginning of the war in Europe in 1939. We are at the same place today. THAT is my anger.
I welcome Cadets to read our posts, think about what we are saying, carry a spark with you, you just might be the ones to turn things around. Stop tossing worthless bombs at us and then hide. What about you, the Instructors, what can you do? Do you twist your hands and utter nothing? There are good and solid Merchant Seaman posting on this forum, pay attention.
Amazingly MarAd actually got something right back in 1995 when it implemented the Maritime Security Program which for all intents and purposes replaced the Operating Differential Subsidy. Today for the cost of $186M per years the US flag merchant fleet has 60 additional vessels in it.
MSA 2003 authorizes $156 million annually for FYs 2006, 2007, and 2008; $174 million annually for FYs 2009, 2010, and 2011; and $186 million annually for FYs 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 to support the operation of 60 U.S.-flag vessels in the foreign commerce of the United States. Participating operators are required to make their ships and commercial transportation resources available upon request by the Secretary of Defense during times of war or national emergency.
On January 12, 2005 the Maritime Administration awarded MSP operating agreements for 60 ships. Since implementation of the MSP in 2005, 30 of the original MSP ships have been replaced with more modern and capable ships. The MSP maintains a modern U.S.-flag fleet providing military access to vessels and vessel capacity, as well as a total global, intermodal transportation network. This network includes not only vessels, but logistics management services, infrastructure, terminals facilities and U.S. citizen merchant mariners to crew the government owned/controlled and commercial fleets. On October 8, 1996, the President signed the Maritime Security Act of 1996 establishing the Maritime Security Program (MSP) for Fiscal Years (FY) 1996 through 2005 to provide financial assistance up to $2.1 million per vessel per year to operators of U.S.-flag vessels with approved MSP Operating Agreements. MSP funding was authorized at $100 million annually to cover a maximum of 47 vessels. On November 24, 2003, the President signed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004, which contained the Maritime Security Act of 2003 (MSA 2003) creating a new MSP for FY 2006 through FY 2015. This program also provides financial assistance to operators of U.S.-flag vessels that meet certain qualifications. MSA 2003 requires that the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, establish a fleet of active, commercially viable, militarily useful, privately-owned vessels to meet national defense and other security requirements.
MSP Participants
American International Shipping, LLC 1
APL Marine Services, Ltd. 9
Argent Marine Management, Inc. 1
Central Gulf Lines, Inc. 4
Farrell Lines Incorporated 5
Fidelio Limited Partnership 7
Hapag-Lloyd USA, LLC 5
Liberty Global Logistics, LLC 1
Luxmar Tanker Corporation 1
Maersk Line, Ltd. 19
Maremar Tanker Corporation 1
Patriot Shipping, LLC 2
Waterman Steamship Corporation 4
30 Containerships > 3,000 TEUs
7 Geared Cont’s < 2,500 TEUs
18 RO/ROs total 2.9M SQ FT
2 Heavy Lift total 0.06M SQ FT
3 Product Tankers 35-48 thousand DWT each
The ship capacity and associated intermodal capabilities of the MSP dry cargo vessels are enrolled in the Voluntary Intermodal Sealift Agreement (VISA) program, the government’s sealift emergency preparedness program.
Extrapolating these numbers, the addition of $86M more to that would mean an addition of a further 30 ships to the program. Class, today’s quiz question is: what’s worth more to US defence? 160 addtional newbie 3rd mates/engineers (only maybe 30 who might actually sail as a career) or 30 additional ships with maybe 1200 US ciitizen mariners employed to run them?
Pencils down class! Now, little Timmy, what answer did you get today?
.
We just don’t get why you would argue argue your points so forcefully
it’s called having the courage of one’s convictions. If you know in your gut that you are right (such as with the issue of foreign mariners in the GoM), then you debate, fight, argue, scrap, claw against any comers.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense”
Winston Churchill
Honor I have in abundance but good sense is lost to me…
[QUOTE=c.captain;64754]Honor I have in abundance but good sense is lost to me…[/QUOTE]
“good sense is lost to me” - now that’s bull crappy c.captain, your track record, plus your present position as Master indicates a man with a lot of moxie, and yes, good sense.
[QUOTE=c.captain;64751]Amazingly MarAd actually got something right back in 1995 when it implemented the Maritime Security Program which for all intents and purposes replaced the Operating Differential Subsidy. Today for the cost of $186M per years the US flag merchant fleet has 60 additional vessels in it.[/QUOTE]
Interesting, and I like that figure, could we be seeing a new beginning?
[QUOTE=c.captain;64751]Extrapolating these numbers, the addition of $86M more to that would mean an addition of a further 30 ships to the program. Class, today’s quiz question is: what’s worth more to US defence? 160 addtional newbie 3rd mates/engineers (only maybe 30 who might actually sail as a career) or 30 additional ships with maybe 1200 US ciitizen mariners employed to run them?[/QUOTE]
I’d opt for the 30 additional ships any day, but that’s how I roll.
[QUOTE=c.captain;64751]Pencils down class![/QUOTE]
It’s been 50 years since I last heard those words.
~~~~ 
~~~~
“good sense is lost to me” - now that’s bull crappy c.captain, your track record, plus your present position as Master indicates a man with a lot of moxie, and yes, good sense.
Nonsense man…if I had “good sense” I’d be out fishing rather that spending much of my free time here getting all steamed everyday.
btw, I have never been accused of having “moxie”…I prefer “determination and fortitude defending a worthy cause (or a few causes anyway) in the face of entreched narrowminded opposition”.
Harumph!
[QUOTE=c.captain;64761]Nonsense man…if I had “good sense” I’d be out fishing rather that spending much of my free time here getting all steamed everyday.[/QUOTE]
I’m tired of the thread, I won’t be here much longer. Doubtful I changed any minds, equally noteworthy I haven’t changed any of my thoughts. Perhaps being a retired Merchant Seaman, with decades of sailing behind me, I may have garnered some respect but that’s in doubt also. I simply do not care any longer and will walk away from it all.
[QUOTE=c.captain;64761]btw, I have never been accused of having “moxie”…I prefer “determination and fortitude defending a worthy cause (or a few causes anyway) in the face of entreched narrowminded opposition”.[/QUOTE]
You have your work cut out for you. I wish you the best, not only here on a forum but in the life ahead to you. I’ve come to know you as a good solid man, an honorable man.
[QUOTE=c.captain;64761]Harumph![/QUOTE]
Harumph
I’m not tired of this thread and will be disappointed when it flames out.
Even though I’m just a 4C Deckie at a lowly State school, I’m finding the insight on this forum - and this thread - very helpful in forging a career strategy. I am not sure where I will land, but that’s OK as I need to keep the options open.
Someday I’ll be where you older salts are, waxing on about how things used to be. In the meantime - Bring me that horizon…
Someday I’ll be where you older salts are, waxing on about how things used to be
To that I can only say “God help you man” and if someday you look upon these years as “the good ole days”, I am glad I will be dead by then!
Harumph!
I’m not done yet with this thread. Kings Point, USMMAAA, MARAD, take a look at this attached image. What have any of you done for the US Merchant Seamen? Here is what I done, I sailed. How can any of you not be stricken, THIS [B]was[/B] the mission, not to fly airplanes, not to be sent into space. See if you can turn things around but take a good look at what you really are today, totally disengaged. DAM YOU. My respects to all the KP graduates who are sailing. Maybe, just maybe things will change. I have given up and probably will see some swiftboating behind my back (just how did THAT word enter our lexicon?). Like a great Lady once said to the Board, “don’t fuck with me boys, I know who you are.”
Ha Ha I hear that, I remember what towing was like as a kid man how times have changed.
Ha Ha I hear that, I remember what towing was like as a kid man how times have changed.
When I was starting my career in the 70’s there still were boats like this in regular daily use. Z-drives? What the hell are Z-drives, in fact what the hell is a clutch?!?
Ah, the mighty tug BEE with her spectacular 6 cylinder Atlas 6HM464 diesel making a whoppin 120hp!..something makes me think you might know a bit about her Mr. rshrew?
now boy, thems was the ole timey daze!
Oh yah I still get the old time feel running our little 300hp single screw boats but not as bad as my old man had it.
Oh yah I still get the old time feel running our little 300hp single screw boats but not as bad as my old man had it.
Now look what you’ve gone and done! You’ve got me lookin all over Youtube for old Atlas diesel vids.
Damn, how I love them old slowspeed diesels…listening to them run is pure music to this old man’s ears, My particular favorite is the Nordberg but it doesn’t matter to me as long as it is quiet and ticks like a sewing machine. The worst diesel in history is the 149 series Detroits! Pray don’t tell me you have any of those horrible engines in your fleet rshrew?
[QUOTE=c.captain;64808] The worst diesel in history is the 149 series Detroits! /QUOTE]
I would have to vote for the Nohab or even worse, the SACM!
Nope all cats. My uncle does have a 6cyl Washington in his tug the fearless. You can find a video of that on YouTube.