3 A/E to DDE 750Kw or More

Does a person holding a 3 Assistant Engineer Unlimited Horsepower with STCW III/1 Officer In Charge of an Engineering Watch equal a Designated Duty Engineer for 750Kw or More in a periodically unmanned engine room/.

III/1 is the same endorsement a DDE 4000 or greater would hold.

However, i am under the impression that a ‘national’ 3rd assistant can’t fill a ‘national’ dde billet, assuming this is on a vessel over 199 grt.

Since a DDE is the sole engineer, they are the de facto chief engineer and would need STCW III/2 (if STCW endorsements are required).

Whether a 3rd AE can serve as DDE is known as an “equivalent.” There is none that allows a 3rd AE to serve as DDE, when the vessel manning requires either a DDE or a Chief Engineer. See 46 CFR Part 15, Subpart I.

III/1 is OICEW greater than 1000 hp. I was referring to both a dde and a 3rd holding the OICEW. Unless i missed something, i thought this is what the OP was asking.

I know we have been down this road before, but many say (including at least a couple nmc evaluators) that a dde does not qualify for III/2. Back before i upgraded, i missed out on at least one job because a prospective employer kept telling me i could get III/2 with my dde unlimited, but the nmc kept telling me no.

See the second paragraph of section 1 of Enclosure (1) to NVIC 16-14. This was added in response to experiences like yours, and probably after yours.

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In 46 CFR 15.195 (3) is the appropriate STCW endorsement III/1 or III/2? Is there a place that references this? Our vessel is less than 100 GRT nationally, but when we sail internationally we are 819 GRT. We have a 1,200 kW plant.

Also, the other wrench to throw into the mix is that it is a periodically unmanned engineroom.

If you’re serving as Chief you need III/2 (Chief Engineer).

See also the definition of “Chief Engineer” in 46 CFR 10.107. If that describes your duties, you’re the chief engineer and need a III/2 endorsement.

a eng. rm req. to be manned 24 hr. req. watches. and yes, in my experience all written above is valid. If you can at all manage it i’d forgoe the DDE route if it isn’t too late.

Your in this business to make money ! You’ll make more money as a third unlimited HP than a DDE. Definitely more OT and that makes all the difference.

It sounds like it’s a boat owner/manager asking if they can have a 3AE sail as Chief on their under 200 GRT vessel. Either that or it’s someone with a 3AE asking if they can sail as Chief on that boat. It’s definitely not someone asking advice on which license to get.

I occasionally get involved in hiring engineers. Usually, its tugboat engineers which usually require no license, but sometimes it’s for other types of uninspected or inspected vessels that do require a licensed engineer.

I am certainly no expert on what particular engineering license will cover what position, but I find that many owners/managers completely misunderstand what is required.

The USCG should publish a check list with what license will cover what position.

A new CFR is needed that rationalizes the unnecessary plethora of limited engineering licenses into a streamlined STCW compliant much smaller number of licenses.

Common sense suggests that 1AE unlimited should be able to cover any limited Chief, 2AE should be able to cover any DDE, etc.

There is no longer any point in trade restricted licenses, such as fishing, OSV, or uninspected vessels. These are often modern complex vessels. The days of illiterate, backyard mechanic, type engineers being good enough to have some kind of limited USCG issued engineering license are over.

Since when did “common sense” have anything to do with CG regulations?

With regard to the idea that a 1AE being able to cover all the lower licenses, while that might be a regulatory possibility in that a 1st might be able to obtain the paper just by asking, as a hawespiper who has worked steam and motor in every position from wiper to unlimited chief on everything from tugs to tankers and fish factories, the concept is flawed.

Unless the 1st or 2nd has actual experience with the type of machinery found on smaller vessels (DG maintenance doesn’t count all that much) they will be crippled when it comes to the peculiarities of small vessel plants and operations. That doesn’t do anyone any favors.

I would prefer to see licensing include “type ratings” or something of that order so that the person in charge of a vessel and its machinery have actual operational experience with the machinery under his control.

Im going to slow down to read these questions thoroughly as a new Monster. It sounded like he already held the 3rd License Unlimited HP and was considering DDE. My Father was Port Chief Engineer MSC Michael Scandurra He taught me a few things.

They’re are only 3 (that aren’t type rated), that’s not as plethora.

DDE (less than 500 GRT)
Assistant Engineer Limited (less than 1,600 GRT)
Chief Engineer Limited (less than 1,600 GRT)

The horsepower restrictions are self explanatory and don’t count as different licenses.

Marine Safety manual Vol III page A12-3 has a chart that shows various endorsements permitted. 2nd A/E checks off Chief UFIV, DDE Unlim.

Some of the limited engineer licenses in addition to horsepower limitations, also have near coastal limitations. I’ve never seen an Inland limitation, but maybe that too.

In terms of trade restrictions, there is OSV and fishing.

DDE 1000, DDE 4000, and DDE unlimited, multiplied by inland (if that limitation exists), near coastal, and oceans, equals 9 different licenses right there. Six of which may also require STCW depending on vessel type. It seems to me that I might well encounter 15 different variations of engineers holding DDE.

That table doesn’t show what you can serve as with different endorsements. It shows whether or not additional exams are needed when you apply for more than one endorsement at the same time. For example, it shows that if you apply for 2nd AE, you don’t have to take extra exams to add Chief Engineer-Limited. It doesn’t mean that if you (only) hold 2nd AE, you can serve as a Chief Engineer-Limited.

How long has 4000hp been the cutoff between a limited and unlimited horsepower license?

70 years?

In this age of 100,000hp ships, and 6000hp crewboats (which don’t require any engineer license) isn’t it time to raise the cutoff between limited and unlimited?