Another question thats probably been answered, by why not.
I see guys talking about HP levels for upgrading, and wondering if anyone has had an issue trying to go bigger with less HP. Im 3/4 of the way to an “any hp” DDE, on a 4k+ boat, over 200 tons. If I took a job on a 1500-3000 boat, well under 200 tons, would that reduce my chances of being approved for a chief limited oceans license ? Didnt know if anyone has run into this one,
Great question. Check out 46CFR 11.518 which states what you need in order to get your chief limited oceans. 1800 total days of engine room service of which 720 days as a licensed engineer and 900 days as a QMED or equivalent supervisory position. The other 180 days of engine room experience can be as a wiper or general engine room experience. Your horsepower limitations on that license will be based on the formula in 46CFR 11.503. As for getting a job on a vessel well under 200 tons, you just need to make sure that you are working on a vessel that is at least 100 tons or greater and it has a walk in engine room for your service to count, this is based on the rules of the Marine Safety Manual in chapter 12. Hope this helps
[QUOTE=BargeMonkey;117597]Another question thats probably been answered, by why not.
I see guys talking about HP levels for upgrading, and wondering if anyone has had an issue trying to go bigger with less HP. Im 3/4 of the way to an “any hp” DDE, on a 4k+ boat, over 200 tons. If I took a job on a 1500-3000 boat, well under 200 tons, would that reduce my chances of being approved for a chief limited oceans license ? Didnt know if anyone has run into this one,[/QUOTE]
DDE and Chief Engineer-Limited don’'t have HP requirements on the sea service, but unlimited licenses do. You can use time on any HP for DDE or CE-Ltd, but for an unlimited license, if at least half the time is not over 4,000 HP, you’ll get a HP limit on the “unlimited” license (this actually sort of makes sense, the CFR doesn’t call the licenses “unlimited”).
Even with a DDE Unlimited, at least half of your sea time must be on a vessel over 4000 HP or you will have a HP limitation of 150% of the HP rating that you spent the most time on. This does apply to Chief-Lited. Not just unlimited.
§ 11.524 Service requirements for designated duty engineer of steam and/or motor vessels.
(a) DDE endorsements are issued in three levels of horsepower limitations dependent upon the total service of the applicant and completion of appropriate examination. These MMCs are limited to vessels of not more than 500 gross tons on certain waters as specified in § 11.501 of this part.
(b) The service requirements for endorsements as DDE are:
(1) For designated duty engineer of steam and/or motor vessels of any horsepower, the applicant must have three years of service in the engineroom. Eighteen months of this service must have been as a qualified member of the engine department or equivalent supervisory position.
(2) For designated duty engineer of steam and/or motor vessels of not more than 4,000 horsepower, the applicant must have two years of service in the engineroom. One year of this service must have been as a qualified member of the engine department or equivalent supervisory position.
(3) For designated duty engineer of steam and/or motor vessels of not more than 1,000 horsepower, the applicant must have one year of service in the engineroom. Six months of this service must have been as a qualified member of the engine department or equivalent supervisory position.
[CGD 81-059, 52 FR 38623, Oct. 16, 1987. Redesignated and amended by USCG-2006-24371, 74 FR 11216 and 11251, Mar. 16, 2009]
§ 11.503 Horsepower limitations.
(a) Engineer licenses and endorsements of all grades and types may be subject to horsepower limitations. Other than as provided in § 11.524 of this part for the designated duty engineer (DDE), the horsepower limitation placed on a license or MMC endorsement is based on the applicant’s qualifying experience considering the total shaft horsepower of each vessel on which the applicant has served.
(b) When an applicant for an original or raise of grade of an engineer license or MMC endorsement, other than a DDE, has not obtained at least 50 percent of the required qualifying experience on vessels of 4,000 or more horsepower, a horsepower limitation is placed on the MMC based on the applicant’s qualifying experience. The endorsement is limited to the maximum horsepower on which at least 25 percent of the required experience was obtained, or 150 percent of the maximum horsepower on which at least 50 percent of the service was obtained, whichever is higher. Limitations are in multiples of 1,000 horsepower, using the next higher figure when an intermediate horsepower is calculated. When the limitation as calculated equals or exceeds 10,000 horsepower, an unlimited horsepower endorsement is issued.
© The following service on vessels of 4,000 horsepower or over will be considered qualifying for the raising or removing of horsepower limitations placed on an engineer license or MMC endorsement:
(1) Six months of service in the highest-grade endorsed: removal of all horsepower limitations.
(2) Six months of service as an officer in any capacity other than the highest grade for which licensed or endorsed: Removal of all horsepower limitations for the grade in which service is performed and raise the next higher grade endorsement to the horsepower of the vessel on which service was performed. The total cumulative service before and after issuance of the limited license or MMC endorsement may be considered in removing all horsepower limitations.
(3) Twelve months of service as oiler or junior engineer while holding a license or MMC endorsement as third assistant engineer or assistant engineer (limited oceans): removal of all horsepower limitations on third assistant engineer or assistant engineer’s (limited oceans) endorsement.
(4) Six months of service as oiler or junior engineer while holding a license or MMC endorsement as second assistant engineer: removal of all horsepower limitations on third assistant engineer’s endorsement.
(d) Raising or removing horsepower limitations based on service required by paragraph © of this section may be granted without further written examination providing the OCMI who issued the applicant’s license or MMC endorsement, considers further examination unnecessary.
DDE’s have no horsepower service requirements other than being on at least 1000 hp vessel that is 100grt or more and has a walk in engine room. Your horsepower rating is assigned to you based on your sea days that you have not the horsepower on which you have served. There again meaning you can get a dde unlimited having only served your entire career on something 1000 hp as long as you meet the allotted sea service requirements. That’s why the only dde tickets you will see have either a 1000,4000, or unlimited designation. There is no such thing as a dde 2000 or a dde 5000, because it is not based on the horsepower of the vessel you served on, and all three are limited to 500grt.
How to get a dde I can understand through reading the CFR’s and MSM, coming from deep sea I never heard the term “designated duty engineer” a day in my life before hearing it in the gulf. It is just s strange name. What “designated duties” are you allowed to do? And are there certain “non-designated duties” that you can’t do? Are you allowed to stand your own watch? And who designates your duties? The company? A Catholic Priest? Some of life’s great mysteries I guess…
The DDE engineer has only 2 responsibilities.
Keep fuel in the day tank.
Run and maintain the galley TV remote. If you can master these skills, your all set.
You forgot about cooking breakfast.
[QUOTE=bunker305;118095]How to get a dde I can understand through reading the CFR’s and MSM, coming from deep sea I never heard the term “designated duty engineer” a day in my life before hearing it in the gulf. It is just s strange name. What “designated duties” are you allowed to do? And are there certain “non-designated duties” that you can’t do? Are you allowed to stand your own watch? And who designates your duties? The company? A Catholic Priest? Some of life’s great mysteries I guess…[/QUOTE]
Look at the title of STCW Section A-III/1 if you want to get even more confused…
[QUOTE=jdcavo;118119]Look at the title of STCW Section A-III/1 if you want to get even more confused…[/QUOTE]
Mr.Cavo, you were right, I am now totally confused and a little amazed. So I was searching the NMC website, out of a mixture of having a challenge and sheer boredom, to find what the hell “designated duties” meant and I come across the requirements of a chief engineer osv under the checklists tab. You mean to tell me a 500grt DDE license magically turns into a 3000GRT chief osv license with and I quote “No additional training, assessment, or exams required”. All you have to do is apply for this endorsement and Wa-La you’re a chief. And people accept and take this license seriously? Who in the hell came up with this gem? And when are us unlimited guys going to catch a break like this? I would have loved to been able to skip some steps along the way instead of sailing for untold years in order just to get my stinking 1st. Not to mention the “observer time” at slave wages you have to do in order to meet all the propulsion mode requirements as you come up the pipe. OK…I’ve vented…back to my “designated duties”
[QUOTE=bunker305;118195]Mr.Cavo, you were right, I am now totally confused and a little amazed. So I was searching the NMC website, out of a mixture of having a challenge and sheer boredom, to find what the hell “designated duties” meant and I come across the requirements of a chief engineer osv under the checklists tab. You mean to tell me a 500grt DDE license magically turns into a 3000GRT chief osv license with and I quote “No additional training, assessment, or exams required”. All you have to do is apply for this endorsement and Wa-La you’re a chief. And people accept and take this license seriously? Who in the hell came up with this gem? And when are us unlimited guys going to catch a break like this? I would have loved to been able to skip some steps along the way instead of sailing for untold years in order just to get my stinking 1st. Not to mention the “observer time” at slave wages you have to do in order to meet all the propulsion mode requirements as you come up the pipe. OK…I’ve vented…back to my “designated duties”[/QUOTE]
I’m not going to try an answer or explain most of what you’re asking. Others may offer an explanation, or maybe you can figure it out…
The STCW use of “designated duty engineer” is not the same as the US license. In STCW, it means the guy who is assigned to be on call at specified times of day for an unmanned engine room. Someone with the DDE license is usually the only engineer on board, and thuis is in efrfect, the equivalent of the chief engineer. That’s why someone as the sole engineer holding the DDE license needs to have STCW III/2 (for the management level, inclkuding chief engineer) and not the STCW III/1 (ooperational level).
[QUOTE=jdcavo;118198]I’m not going to try an answer or explain most of what you’re asking. Others may offer an explanation, or maybe you can figure it out…
The STCW use of “designated duty engineer” is not the same as the US license. In STCW, it means the guy who is assigned to be on call at specified times of day for an unmanned engine room. Someone with the DDE license is usually the only engineer on board, and thuis is in efrfect, the equivalent of the chief engineer. That’s why someone as the sole engineer holding the DDE license needs to have STCW III/2 (for the management level, inclkuding chief engineer) and not the STCW III/1 (ooperational level).[/QUOTE]
Ok got it…And the increase in size in which you can serve is brought on by?
[QUOTE=bunker305;118200]Ok got it…And the increase in size in which you can serve is brought on by?[/QUOTE]
46 CFR Part 15:
§ 15.915 Engineer Officer Endorsements.
The following licenses and MMC officer endorsements authorize the holder to serve as noted, within any restrictions on the license or MMC:
(a) A designated duty engineer license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of not more than 500 gross tons in the following manner:
(1) A designated duty engineer limited to vessels of not more than 1000 horsepower or 4000 horsepower may serve only on near coastal, Great Lakes, or inland waters;
(2) A designated duty engineer with no horsepower limitations may serve on any waters.
(b) A chief engineer (limited-oceans) license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on ocean, near coastal, or Great Lakes waters.
© A chief engineer (limited-near coastal) license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on near coastal or Great Lakes waters.
(d) An assistant engineer (limited-oceans) license or endorsement authorizes service on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on ocean, near coastal, or Great Lakes waters.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;118219]46 CFR Part 15:
§ 15.915 Engineer Officer Endorsements.
The following licenses and MMC officer endorsements authorize the holder to serve as noted, within any restrictions on the license or MMC:
(a) A designated duty engineer license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of not more than 500 gross tons in the following manner:
(1) A designated duty engineer limited to vessels of not more than 1000 horsepower or 4000 horsepower may serve only on near coastal, Great Lakes, or inland waters;
(2) A designated duty engineer with no horsepower limitations may serve on any waters.
(b) A chief engineer (limited-oceans) license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on ocean, near coastal, or Great Lakes waters.
© A chief engineer (limited-near coastal) license or endorsement authorizes service as chief or assistant engineer on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on near coastal or Great Lakes waters.
(d) An assistant engineer (limited-oceans) license or endorsement authorizes service on vessels of any gross tons on inland waters and of not more than 1600 gross tons on ocean, near coastal, or Great Lakes waters.[/QUOTE]
Again… and I do not mean this in a rude way in the least…I’m not seeing in the cfr’s how a dde, which is limited to 500grt goes to a 3000 ton level by simply adding on the chief osv endorsement, not the chief limited but the chief osv endorsement. everywhere in the cfr’s a DDE is limited to 500 tons, but once you add the chief osv endorsement, which again says no further testing or assessments required, and whatever horsepower DDE that person has rolls over to his chief osv ticket along with the added tonnage. I understand the horsepower rolling over (1000,4000,unlimited) but why doesn’t the tonnage restriction remain the same (500grt)? Please just go to the NMC website click checklists, then click engine officers, then DDE. After that go back to the checklist page, click engine officers again, then chief osv and please read the requirements and limitations to both tickets and explain to me how a 500grt ticket goes to a 3000grt, without the need for additional sea time or tests. If there was just a huge need for guys with smaller licenses to fill spots on larger vessels and this exception was made, at least that would make sense, and it is good that a lot of people were able to obtain employment by receiving this endorsement, just when you read the requirements it sounds a little a miss. I see where you can get approved to test for the DDE unlimited, assistant limited, and chief osv in one test, but how would the assistant limited tonnage limit (1600grt) roll over and affect and raise the limitations on the dde or chief osv? And in the cfr’s it never mentions having to have the assistant limited at all in order to receive the chief osv at all. You just need the DDE…so again how does a 500 ton ticket magically grow? And if it does not make your ticket magically grow, can someone, only holding a DDE, go get a job on an offshore supply vessel as an licensed engineer that is over 500grt without the chief osv add on? So again how does it grow by simply adding the chief osv to a 500 ton ticket
The answer your looking for is because the DDE license was a “oil and mineral” license, and if big oil pushes hard enough they will give us all 10kITC stickers soon just for showing up.
And then to jump your Chief OSV 3000 to Chief OSV 6000 the requirements under the checklists say “no additional sea service required, only large OSV course required” So I guess to sum it all up, this is the golden path, you can start on a vessel that is 100grt and 1000hp with a walk in engine room for 1080 days in which 540 of those days you need your QMED or other supervisory position, go test for your DDE unlimited and ask for your chief osv 3000 add on, find a company to hire on with that has a USCG approved large osv course, take that course and any assessments, and you have now turned a 500t DDE into a Chief OSV 6000, and with the day and a half credit you could do all this with only 2 years worth of sea time( meaning your original 1080 days for your DDE) throw in another 6 months sea time here and there just for good measure, and you are now a chief engineer osv 6000 making probably $200-$300 a day more than a chief on a car carrier, box boat, or tanker…thank god for the GOM power of lobbying
HAHAHAHA!! That’s funny…that’s exactly what I’m doing! Now I know I’m qualified!
[QUOTE=BargeMonkey;118117]The DDE engineer has only 2 responsibilities.
Keep fuel in the day tank.
Run and maintain the galley TV remote. If you can master these skills, your all set.[/QUOTE]
LOL! That’s funny! That’s exactly what I’m doing now! Now I now I’m qualified!
[QUOTE=exsubguy;118118]You forgot about cooking breakfast.[/QUOTE]
That’s funny hahaha!!
After reading this about engineers and DDE licenses, I can see that the deck license structure could easily have been made a lot more screwed up and nonsensical that it already is.
[QUOTE=txwooley;118091]Even with a DDE Unlimited, at least half of your sea time must be on a vessel over 4000 HP or you will have a HP limitation of 150% of the HP rating that you spent the most time on. This does apply to Chief-Lited. Not just unlimited.[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t apply to DDE, see 46 CFR 11.503(a):
[I]Engineer endorsements of all grades and types may be subject to propulsion power limitations. [U][B]Other than as provided in §11.524 of this subpart for the designated duty engineer (DDE)[/B][/U], the propulsion power limitation placed on a license or MMC endorsement is based on the applicant’s qualifying experience considering the total shaft propulsion power of each vessel on which the applicant has served.[/I] [emphasis added]