Hello I currently hold a 3rd A/E license I was going to upgrade to my 2nd A/E along with the Chief Limited license. I got coast guard approval however they informed me I needed to retest. I have called the NMC and they have told me I do indeed need to retest. I had always thought you did not need to retest and I know several people who have done a similar application and not retested. Am I in wrong saying that I don’t need to retest or should I break out the books again. Thanks
You have to test for the chief limited. The 2A/E is an upgrade with sea time. Chief limited is also managerial and 2A/E is operational, I may be wrong though. either way, chief limited was an easy test
There’s a test. There are a lot of subjects for Chief Limited that weren’t on your 3rd AE test. See 46 CFR 11.950.
It depends on how long ago you got your 3AE.
If you do not have to test for 2AE but can upgrade solely on sea time then you will have to test for Chief Limited, but you should be able to DDE Ltd. with later upgrade to DDE Unltd after six months and no test. See Marine Safety Manual Vol. III Chapter 12
If you got your original 3AE long enough ago and have to test for 2A/E then according to the Marine Safety Manual Vol. III Chapter 12, you should not have to test for Chief Limited or DDE. In my experience however, the NMC is not recognizing this portion of the MSM and is requiring testing. As I was told by my evaluator “my LCDR said the MSM is obsolete.” which I thought was a bit of a pecular statement.
You’re misreading the MSM. That provision (page A12-3) only applies when someone applies for more than one license at the same time. With the exception of the footnote to the table which is a very limited, specific scenario for DDE Unlimited, the MSM doesn’t say that if you hold one license, you don’t have to test for another.
The MSM is outdated, it was written almost 20 years ago, before the full implementation of STCW95, and long before the comprehensive changes in 2013. But it hasn’t been cancelled, so it is still valid policy, as long as it does not conflict with a regulation or more recent policy. In this particular case, your interpretation conflicts with 46 CFR 11.903(a)(32).
As to point 1, Im not actually misreading it, I know it is applying for multiples at the same time, I thought the “at the same time” was inherent in the question and so applying for multiple licenses at the same time was inherent in the answer.
As to point 2 I see from the “as amended” date that 11.903 was amended after I stopped sailing and while I did check the MSM before answering, I did not check the CFR … my bad on that one.
He opened his post with “Hello I currently hold a 3rd A/E license…” Reading the entire question is also a good idea when taking tests…
The entire regulation on when exams are required was amended in 2013, but there was no change to Chief Engineer-Limited, see the version of 46 CFR 11.903(a)(26)that was in effectfor quite a few years before the 12/24/2013 rule change.
And completes it with “… I was going to upgrade to my 2nd A/E along with the Chief Limited license.” How is that not applying for more than one license at the same time?
While the MSM may have been superceded by the CFR update, were that provision enforceable it does in fact apply to the OP. Reading the entire question is also a good idea when responding to internet posts.
I didn’t read the whole question. But an exam is still required. The MSM only says you don’t take an additional exam, it doesn’t say that you don’t take any exam. That would be in conflict with the superior authority, 46 CFR 11.903(a).
We are in agreement on this. As I said in my original answer …
If you got your original 3AE long enough ago and have to test for 2A/E then according to the Marine Safety Manual Vol. III Chapter 12, you should not have to test for Chief Limited or DDE
When I upgraded while holding my DDE unlimited and my 3rd Asst. to my 2nd and Chief limited I did not have to retest, they gave it to me on seatime only.
Maybe the DDE unlimited exam is the same a Chief limited.
I think they are similar, when I sat for the two licenses I sat for four modules for the DDE and five modules for my 3rd.
They are both four 70 question modules.
Pretty sure you have to take the exam to upgrade from dde unlimited to chief limited, however.
They are virtually identical. I took 2A/E, Chief Ltd and DDE Unltd at the same time. I would say half or more were literally the exact same questions.
Why take both C/E Ltd and DDE?
Chief Ltd was Near Coastal
Assuming this was a while ago. Chief limited is oceans now, no near coastal.
When there was still a near coastal I can see doing both. Chief limited is 1600 grt and a dde is a 500 grt…
- I’ve been shoreside since 2012 with my license in continuity
Before the Chief-Ltd endorsements were combined in 2014, a near coastal endorsement took one year less than oceans (4 years v. 5 years). So it would have made sense to get both DDE Unlimited and Chief Ltd N/C if you didn’t have the 5 years of time needed for the oceans CE Ltd endorsement. DDE Unlimited would let you work on oceans (on vessels up to 500 GRT).