Finally, I am almost ready to apply to become a mariner. I have obtained my TWIC and I am just waiting to get one more document before I apply for my MMD/MMC. What I am considering is whether to join the MSC or to do the apprenticeship with SIU. My brother went the SIU route and so far things have worked out well for him. He has never waited more than a day in the union hall to land a job and has been able to get all the schooling he has needed (at no cost, besides his dues) to get those jobs.
I admit that I am no expert in this field and what I am asking for is for someone to break down the pros and cons of joining either of these (SIU or MSC). How did you start in this profession? Would you recommend it? Any and all information/views are acceptable. Please, teach me.
i am an academy grad, and have done nothing but licensed work since 1997. admittedly, i’ve been very fortunate. as far as SIU vs. MSC goes, depends on what you are in it for.
SIU: if you’re in it purely for vacation, then SIU deep sea is the way to go. i work with SIU crew 75% of the time, and your statement that your brother has never waited more than a day for a ship definitely raises an eyebrow, but he’s your brother so i’ll just take your word for it. but i still find that incredibly hard to believe, unless you and your brother’s last name is Sacco. the SIU will chew you up and spit you out 20-30-40 yrs from now at 7-9 mos shipping per year, and you will get squat for a pension even after 20+ yrs of actual seatime. your shore time on commercial ships will be scant, if any. doesn’t matter whether it’s a tanker or container and certainly not car carrier. we only have 7 or 8 US flag bulkers, and whether you can go ashore or would want to go ashore is a crap shoot from one voyage to the next.
MSC: be prepared to live either near san diego or norfolk, b/c that is where you will have to report to when they put you back in to the labor pool for ship assignment. i honestly don’t know what the wages are like, but i did just meet a c/e who did nearly 10mos straight and they called him to go back after about 2-3 mos off. that part of MSC has never really changed.
your best options for steady employment, chances of advancement, and good pay are the GOM OSV operators. however, if you don’t live near Louisiana you may want to consider moving. working 28/28 or 28/14 for a while can really wear you down if you have to fly home or drive more 6 than hrs every time. online applications are good, but showing in person is a lot more effective.
plenty of threads on here to educate you on “knocking on doors in LA.”
look them up and do your research or the salty masses are going to keelhaul you for failure to show initiative.
oh yeah, US flag commercial fleet is in really bad shape these days (NOTHING NEW ABOUT THAT) with scrapping of 4 ships and gov’t sequestration affecting MARAD monies effective OCT 01. only going to get worse with conclusion of withdrawal of troops/equipment from kuwait/iraq and afghanistan.
I used the SIU to obtain sea time in order to sit for my license. Once opportunity came to sail topside I left them in my rear view mirror. To this day I still hear people still refer to them as the SIOU. I too find it hard to believe anyone never waited more than one day for a job with the SIU. Unless of course they pay off the agent in the local port. I saw a lot of that bullshit and it’s still common practice.
MSC, I used them also for a period in 1982-83 when things got tight. Went on one ship for 8 months and was “given 30 days leave”. Went back to the same ship for 6 months, another “30 days leave”. The 3rd ship I lasted 4 months and when they sent me a letter after my 30 days off demanding I report to the pool for another assignment I quit.
Either one, consider an opportunity. If you make them a career, as the other poster stated, you get screwed.
Thanks for the great info. In regards to the wait time, maybe we should consider him lucky… Obviously, the first two assignments were handed to him (training and first assignment). His last three ships, however, did work out in this fashion. Being that he has only been doing this a little over two years, maybe the future will hold closer to what you guys are saying. He did consider himself lucky as well. He works on the deck and in his time waiting in the hall (short amounts of time) he has never seen a stewards job or engine job come up.
[QUOTE=RichM;119881]I used the SIU to obtain sea time in order to sit for my license. Once opportunity came to sail topside I left them in my rear view mirror. To this day I still hear people still refer to them as the SIOU. I too find it hard to believe anyone never waited more than one day for a job with the SIU. Unless of course they pay off the agent in the local port. I saw a lot of that bullshit and it’s still common practice.
MSC, I used them also for a period in 1982-83 when things got tight. Went on one ship for 8 months and was “given 30 days leave”. Went back to the same ship for 6 months, another “30 days leave”. The 3rd ship I lasted 4 months and when they sent me a letter after my 30 days off demanding I report to the pool for another assignment I quit.
Either one, consider an opportunity. If you make them a career, as the other poster stated, you get screwed.[/QUOTE]
rich, thanks for backing me.
you collecting that huge SIU pension when you hit 65?
Thanks for your input guys. Consider my brother lucky I suppose. Also, keep in mind he has only had to sit in the union hall three separate times in two years. Maybe the future holds a different story. He did tell me that during his time waiting he never saw engine or steward jobs pop up. So, if this is a short term thing I’m guessing its wiser to go with SIU if I still want some time off and go back when I want…
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119893]rich, thanks for backing me.
you collecting that huge SIU pension when you hit 65?[/QUOTE]
The SIU pension I believe with 20 yrs of sea time is right around 1k per month. I just bid them farewell after I had my license in hand. Never got vested with 10 yrs.
On the other hand, my wife who sailed with them for 20 yrs and got just over 13 yrs sea time will receive something like 325 per month when she reaches 65. She applied for and recieved the SIU scholarship to return to school.
And they fucked her out of half the award because she attended an accelerated program. With all due respect to the seaman sailing in the SIU, the leadership of than union will fuck them in the long run.
Who can live on $1000 per month?
The wage related SIU pension ain’t bad. The contracts I worked were 2 for 1 pension credits. With 7300 credit days, your pension is 40% of your best 5 year average of the last 10 years worked. Based on your day rate, not with overtime or vacation pay. For each year over the 7300, you get another 2%. I believe the extra %s is if you’re over 62. I’m not sure as I opted out at 56.
[QUOTE=injunear;119898]The wage related SIU pension ain’t bad. The contracts I worked were 2 for 1 pension credits. With 7300 credit days, your pension is 40% of your best 5 year average of the last 10 years worked. Based on your day rate, not with overtime or vacation pay. For each year over the 7300, you get another 2%. I believe the extra %s is if you’re over 62. I’m not sure as I opted out at 56.[/QUOTE]
i do believe that you are the only SIU long timer who has heaped anything resembling praise on its pension plan.
what companies did you get this 2 for 1 pension credit with, how many yrs of sea time did you have at 56, and what will your monthly check be at 62/65 or now if you are already collecting it?
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119899]i do believe that you are the only SIU long timer who has heaped anything resembling praise on its pension plan.
what companies did you get this 2 for 1 pension credit with, how many yrs of sea time did you have at 56, and what will your monthly check be at 62/65 or now if you are already collecting it?[/QUOTE]
Most of the Inland division contracts that I’m aware of were wage related. Harbor tugs, seagoing tugs, dredges, ATBs. You can retire at 55 if you have accumulated the 7300 days credit. I sailed 24 years SIU mostly 28/28. The pension I draw will be the same at 62 if the fund stays in good shape. It was 110% funded at the bottom of the market. The insurance is $100 a month for pensioner and $100 for spouse. I believe AB/tankermen are averaging 90-100K a year now on the Crowley ATBs. $40K pension ain’t too shabby. But then a guy has to be an idiot to put all of his eggs in one basket.
[QUOTE=injunear;119900]Most of the Inland division contracts that I’m aware of were wage related. Harbor tugs, seagoing tugs, dredges, ATBs. You can retire at 55 if you have accumulated the 7300 days credit. I sailed 24 years SIU mostly 28/28. The pension I draw will be the same at 62 if the fund stays in good shape. It was 110% funded at the bottom of the market. The insurance is $100 a month for pensioner and $100 for spouse. I believe AB/tankermen are averaging 90-100K a year now on the Crowley ATBs. $40K pension ain’t too shabby. But then a guy has to be an idiot to put all of his eggs in one basket.[/QUOTE]
thanks for the info. i’ve only worked with SIU guys on ships, so I don’t know about any of those vessels you mentioned. only a few jobs in SIU deep sea are permanent. these days that is basically just 1 bosun, 1 steward, and 1 electrician per ship, and maybe a pumpman if it is old tanker.
it would also seem that working Crowley ATBs is a world of difference compared to crowley managed “express” ships.
[QUOTE=RichM;119897]The SIU pension I believe with 20 yrs of sea time is right around 1k per month. I just bid them farewell after I had my license in hand. Never got vested with 10 yrs.
On the other hand, my wife who sailed with them for 20 yrs and got just over 13 yrs sea time will receive something like 325 per month when she reaches 65. She applied for and recieved the SIU scholarship to return to school.
And they fucked her out of half the award because she attended an accelerated program. With all due respect to the seaman sailing in the SIU, the leadership of than union will fuck them in the long run.
Who can live on $1000 per month?[/QUOTE]
I’ll bet mike sacco could live on that. Oh, my mistake ,I thought you said $100,000 per month.
SIU and the word “leadership” in the same sentence is an insult to old schooled knee cap busting goons who left no doubts about how they were going to earn their money off the fruits of the union member’s labor.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119899]i do believe that you are the only SIU long timer who has heaped anything resembling praise on its pension plan.
what companies did you get this 2 for 1 pension credit with, how many yrs of sea time did you have at 56, and what will your monthly check be at 62/65 or now if you are already collecting it?[/QUOTE]
Something else has been added in the last few years is the Money Purchase Plan. Different contracts had different tax deferred company contributions. I think the member could invest their vacation checks tax deferred. I’m not sure as our vacation pay was rolled into our base pay on our last contract. Over the 7 years I was in the plan, it averaged about 12% return. You have to draw it out 2 years after you retire. They offered a 401K after I retired with no company contributions because of the pension contribution. Many of the guys I sailed with complained about it initially but have taken full advantage of it.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119876]but i did just meet a c/e who did nearly 10mos straight and they called him to go back after about 2-3 mos off. that part of MSC has never really changed.[/QUOTE]
If he had 2-3 months off after 10 months on, then that part of MSC really has changed. Back when I worked for MSC in the 90’s you accumulated 2.5 days of leave for each month worked. I worked 12 months on one ship and the detailer started pestering me to come back after three weeks at home.
Speaking of home, MSC does (or, at least, did) pay for transportation between your home and the pool, so you really can live pretty much anywhere.
[QUOTE=captobie;119976]If he had 2-3 months off after 10 months on, then that part of MSC really has changed. Back when I worked for MSC in the 90’s you accumulated 2.5 days of leave for each month worked. I worked 12 months on one ship and the detailer started pestering me to come back after three weeks at home.
Speaking of home, MSC does (or, at least, did) pay for transportation between your home and the pool, so you really can live pretty much anywhere.[/QUOTE]
money isn’t the issue, more like time. if you have so little time off and then they want you back in to the labor pool at NFK or SD and maybe it takes a while to place you on ship, it sure is nice to go home at night instead of hotel. (or even worse if some barracks).
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119904]I’ll bet mike sacco could live on that. Oh, my mistake ,I thought you said $100,000 per month.
SIU and the word “leadership” in the same sentence is an insult to old schooled knee cap busting goons who left no doubts about how they were going to earn their money off the fruits of the union member’s labor.[/QUOTE]
I don’t get this. Right now, the financiers at the big banks are hauling in the bucks making big bets they can’t cover if the shit hits the fan. They can do that because they know the taxpayers will back them up if they get in a pinch. It’s heads they win tales you lose.
But they went to school at Harvard, they are polite and dignified , they are dressed up in expensive suits and get taken to work in a limo. These people are variously called the elites, the 1% , the job creators or the makers and they are robbing you blind.
What if a working man manages to get himself a cushy job in an office after working the waterfront? He is at best a “corrupt union boss” that tells the “rank and file” what to do and uses his “goons” and “thugs” to enforce.
If it’s a Harvard educated lawyer stealing money everyone bows down and kisses his ass, he obviously deserves to be at the top because he doesn’t have the stink of manual labor on his hands.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;119980]money isn’t the issue, more like time. if you have so little time off and then they want you back in to the labor pool at NFK or SD and maybe it takes a while to place you on ship, it sure is nice to go home at night instead of hotel. (or even worse if some barracks).[/QUOTE]
That is a very good point. Especially if you are up for training, you can spend quite awhile in the pool. When I was at MSC, a barracks room would have been far preferable to the hotel. Any old MSCPAC folks here remember the Point Marina Inn?
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;120036]I don’t get this. Right now, the financiers at the big banks are hauling in the bucks making big bets they can’t cover if the shit hits the fan. They can do that because they know the taxpayers will back them up if they get in a pinch. It’s heads they win tales you lose.
But they went to school at Harvard, they are polite and dignified , they are dressed up in expensive suits and get taken to work in a limo. These people are variously called the elites, the 1% , the job creators or the makers and they are robbing you blind.
What if a working man manages to get himself a cushy job in an office after working the waterfront? He is at best a “corrupt union boss” that tells the “rank and file” what to do and uses his “goons” and “thugs” to enforce.
If it’s a Harvard educated lawyer stealing money everyone bows down and kisses his ass, he obviously deserves to be at the top because he doesn’t have the stink of manual labor on his hands.[/QUOTE]
Nice straw man. So I guess you can’t be against all corruption, both union and non-union? It just so happens that we are specifically chatting about union thuggery, but nice attempt to change the topic and distract.
[QUOTE=SomalianRoadCorporation;120051]Nice straw man. So I guess you can’t be against all corruption, both union and non-union? It just so happens that we are specifically chatting about union thuggery, but nice attempt to change the topic and distract.[/QUOTE]
I am pointing out that so called business leaders are referred to as “leaders” “CEOs” “executives”, managers and employees while the equivalent in a labor organizations is “union boss” “thug” “goon” (there is even a specific injury as in the “kneecap busting goon”) and the “rank and file”
By all means, have a discussion about union thuggery. I’d just like to see something with more substance then using worn out cliches. .