Spot on .EXACTLY!!!
To add to that, it is possible to land an airplane at KBWI (Baltimore’s airport) staying entirely in airspace where ATC has positive control over every airplane. Arriving by ship, about 95% of the traffic you encounter would be vessels not talking to VTS, not controlled by them, and probably mainly not even knowing what VTS is.
- not to mention you cannot fly around here without a transponder, so even if in airspace where I am not talking to anyone they still see me on the radar. My boat has a transponder because I like it, not because it is required.
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Hello Mr. 244
I was not able to respond couple of days ago. Please see my post 638. Thanks.
Discussing whether or not a VTS in Baltimore would have made any difference is akin to whether the DALI had a shaft generator. To answer is clearly no to both…period, full stop!
The only question which needs to be discussed is why the DALI when black that morning? Was there only one generator running and connected at the time? Was there any reason said running generator was known to be compromised (vis a breaker which would trip without being overloaded, a governor on that genset which was not working properly, another piece of machinery critical fro the Genset known to be compromised) or a human action involved (a ridiculous attempt to switch fuel oil before the ship at least cleared out of the harbor, running too heavy a load on that single genset leaving no margin for any big surge in current demand, somebody turning something on or off at the wrong moment, etc…)?
I am beginning to believe there was only one connected Genset without another one at least spinning thus the lag between going black and restoring power but as chief MOKOi states no way to be able to restart the main in time to stop the ship before the strike?
Because of this accident there will be many new regulations will be forthcoming in the US regarding configuration of generators and switchboards on ships moving in harbors plus escort tugs made up and ready for transits beneath bridges.
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Also wish to ask since the Gensets are also quite large (4-5MW) do they also require supply by non engine driven pumps to continue running? Is only the EDG the only engine which stands completely alone in this regard?
We’re veering off topic a touch here but in that incident, VTS did question Cota’s heading and his intentions as the ship’s course didn’t look right (correctly so) on their screen. It didn’t end up making a difference since he was so confident that he was heading for the D-E span but in other cases, that kind of prompting can theoretically make a difference.
Since VTS, at least in the US, has very limited “controlling” powers, there is a very delicate balance they have to take when it comes to intervening or even questioning a navigational situation without potentially adding on to someone’s confusion or just not having the full picture and causing further problems.
BTW, for those who don’t know or remember, Cota had a perfectly good and capable ASD tug tethered centerline aft throughout that whole event.
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Hello Old School
Good question! Yes, the EDG is the only unit that needs to operate independently. The cooling water and lube pumps are engine driven and just cars and trucks they have a large radiator to cool the jacket water and the lube oil as well. The fan can be either engine driven or an electric motor powered from the emergency board.
The main generators (have various abbreviations around the world such as ‘essentials, SSDGs, A/E for aux engine, DGs, etc’) also have engine driven lube and jacket cooling water pumps. However, soon after start the design philosophy is that the sea water pumps can be started that in turn provides cooling to a central fresh water system that cools the lube and jacket water via heat exchangers that are usually part of the engine/generator skid. Most larger engines will need a fuel circulating pump and these are usually electric motor driven from the emergency switchboard. Hope this helps.
Can someone help me with this. I understand that the rudder is in the shadow of the hull, and I understand that the rudder is more effective with the propeller turning, and I understand the relationship between hull speed and engine speed.
But I am having a very hard time understanding why there is some universal belief that at 7 kts of headway, with the engine stopped that the ship would not have enough steerageway to miss the bridge at say 1000 yards ?
Believe I must be wrong about this - but can’t shake the though I am not. If I am right, the main issue becomes when did the ship get rudder control back.
Time will tell of course.
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TT
Unless there are some pretty strong winds and or cross currents I would say that a ship like the Dali should be able to have steerage at that speed
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I’ll agree with that, with the caveat that there was the better part of a minute where they, presumably, had no rudder control at all. If it happened to be over a bit to starboard, that could have started the swing that way and by the time they got it back, there wasn’t enough time/room to check it and swing the other way.
All of the post-incident videos/images I’ve seen have shown the rudder significantly to port as she sits now, so (unless it was moved after the fact) that was tried at some point.
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yea - that was kind of my thoughts as well. At least to me - it just looked like the lights went out at just about the worst time they could have. 5 min earlier or 5 min later - maybe just anouther near miss
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Hello NW
Interesting! Where did you see the video or images that indicates the rudder is ‘significantly port’?
I can’t find a good standalone image of it through google, but one of the Sal Mercogliano videos blatantly showed it. Sorry, can’t remember which one specifically.
Hello TT
I too agree that at 7-8 kts ahead speed steering/rudder should be effective. Strange that the track indicates the stbd turn and then continues on the same straight line track.
My conjecture is the rudder was possibly a few degrees stbd during the first blackout and stayed in the last position. SG pumps are not normally on the sequential start and most likely would have to be started manually from the steering stand on the Bridge. When the lights came on (EDG or main), and the bridge starts the steering pump, possible the rudder moved to close midships and failed. When they realize that it is not responsive (and the rudder angle indicator is working correctly) they request for the BT to be switched on and the second blackout.
This industry is quite well regulated. There are requirements for the SG to operate at design draft and service speed to go hard over to hard over and hard over (35) to 30 deg within 28 seconds. Emergency pump reqt is 15 to 15 in 60 secs. (Not sure how the Dali is setup 2 pumps with one on emergency or 3 pumps with a smaller one on the emergency). All manufacturers plans are reviewed by Class societies and most have type approvals. Demonstration during sea trials is also part of the procedures even though they might not be able to achieve design draft. I do not see any requirement for the SG or for that matter any other equipment, critical or otherwise for blackout ‘trauma’ tests while it is in operation. All these equipment have actuators, solenoids, etc, etc that may work very well and usually put through endurance test for long term operation. Sudden shocks from blackouts could introduce faults with serious consequences.
Sorry for the long explanation. Assuming no operator error and this accident is attributable to equipment failure due to an unforeseen blackout knocking out critical equipment, hope regulations/rules will be revised to ensure it does not happen again. At the very least they should mandate a speed limit and escort tugs immediately.
Thanks.
Thanks …will check.
Then there’s the fact that squawking 7700 with the flip of a switch will alert all concerned parties and give you traffic priority.
You have a transponder on your boat?
Since the rudder is directly behind the prop and with the main engine dead that prop is now freewheeling in front of the rudder disturbing water flow past it plus if the ship had right rudder on at the time that everything went black momentum of that swing to the right built up while the ship was dark so that after control of the rudder was regained not only does that swing have to be checked but then a swing to the left started. I feel that is expecting a bit too much in this scenario.
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Sure, AIS, not ADS-B 
If they did manage to get the anchor down and on the brake, assuming appropriate amount of chain out, it would have shifted the pivot point forward and increased the RoT (Rate of Turn) to starboard.
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So like the drawing by @spowiednick in the other thread?