Anyone know whether it would be a waste of time to apply for the 500GRT now? Is the application process sufficient to ensure some sort of “grandfathering” when the new STCW rules come into effect? What exactly will change in the tonnage to those who already have a 500GRT? Will they be upgraded?
The Coast Guard will process your app and give you 90 days to get any info in that is missing. I believe you would be grandfathered to test if you got everything in during that time period. As to an automatic upgrade - forget it!
[QUOTE=refusedone;31814]Anyone know whether it would be a waste of time to apply for the 500GRT now? Is the application process sufficient to ensure some sort of “grandfathering” when the new STCW rules come into effect? What exactly will change in the tonnage to those who already have a 500GRT? Will they be upgraded?[/QUOTE]
Nah, that whole NPRM mess got put on the backburner by the USCG after mariners, schools, etc. made a rightfully big stink. I think you’ve got at least until next year, but don’t quote me on that. The new STCW regs are being written this summer but god only knows how long it’ll take to implement. But I wouldn’t waste too much time - specially since NMC is on a slow bell.
As of right now they are only “Proposed changes” when finally announced there will be a effective date that should allow some time for those in the pipe to finish up.
It’s been my understanding that the proposal was to eliminate the middle tonnage licenses. You will either get a 100 ton inland, or a 3000 gt (ITC) license Upon Oceans, or a third, second, chief, or master unlimited upon oceans.
Apparently No other (reputable) country has our confusing license system. For instance, If you are a Master with a British ticket you are able to go anywhere. There is no distinction between inland, near coastal, oceans. But our license system has been so convoluted that other nations couldn’t keep up with it, or understand it. So we agreed ( in 1978) to meet the foreign standard.
The initial thought was that since the USCG signed the memorandum of understanding with IMO in 1978 all our licenses would become equivalent to the foreign standard. Well this is 2010, and Uncle Sams Confused Group has still NOT implemented these ‘agreed upon’ standards. Nothing like timely response to a 1978 agreement, huh?
Anyway, to answer your issue (as best I can) you can apply for a license now. To all the new higher standards, and including flashing light, and the enhanced terrrestrial nav supplement. But when and if the new standards come into play, they aren’t going to grandfather anyone. If you don’t have the 1600 ton oceans, you aren’t going to be given anything. You will be limited to the 500 ton, Or 200 or 100 whatever you test out on forever until you test out at the newer level. Also, you will be restricted to near coastal, or inland. no upgrades.
So I guess you should apply soonest, study hard and get in while you can get the 500. someone mentioned a year or so. yeah, as slow as the government works, it may be that long. But wouldn’t it suck if they passed it sooner, and you slipped out from under the time to get it?
Also, you understand the difference between a 500 and 1600 ton is just time? its the same exam. Why not go for the 1600? It is said that the Terrestrial is just as hard as the celestial course, so why not do both and get oceans?
[QUOTE=cappy208;32877]It’s been my understanding that the proposal was to eliminate the middle tonnage licenses. You will either get a 100 ton inland, or a 3000 gt (ITC) license Upon Oceans, or a third, second, chief, or master unlimited upon oceans.
But when and if the new standards come into play, they aren’t going to grandfather anyone. If you don’t have the 1600 ton oceans, you aren’t going to be given anything. You will be limited to the 500 ton, Or 200 or 100 whatever you test out on forever until you test out at the newer level. Also, you will be restricted to near coastal, or inland. no upgrades.
Also, you understand the difference between a 500 and 1600 ton is just time? its the same exam. Why not go for the 1600? It is said that the Terrestrial is just as hard as the celestial course, so why not do both and get oceans?[/QUOTE]
Your source? You say a few misleading / confusing things here.
According to the NPRM (which, I grant you, has been placed on the backburner and may not look the same when it is finally considered), there will still be a 1600 (GRT) license. The 500 is going away, but not the 1600.
They aren’t going to grandfather anyone? Says who? Not that I would guarantee the opposite, but you sure sound confident.
Why not just go for a 1600? Well, that’s fantastic advice for someone that meets the sea service requirements, but crappy advice for someone that doesn’t.
It is said that the Terrestrial is just as hard as the Celestial? Passive voice sucks. Who says and why?
I didn’t say the 1600 gt license is not going to be issued, but it will morph into the 3000ITC license. Our whole license system is about to be radically changed.
USCG has proposed to stop giving any licenses other than ocean, 3000gt ITC for work beyond the boundry line. I think they will include 100 ton oceans, but that is below the topic.
The existing licenses will be honored, but not easily upgradable. They will stop issuing near coastal licenses. They are going to stop issuing 200NC, 500 NC of anything. You will either have inland or ocean. period.
I[U] am[/U] confused about the 100 ton limit, whether they will offer oceans or not, but it sounds like an inland 100 tons will be the entry level license. And it is NOT subject to STCW codes, because STCW by definition does NOT apply to vessels under 100 tons. However USCG still keeps putting references to STCW on <100 ton licenses because some of the basic Lifesaving, FF and First aid are required on 100 tons too.
I am not confident of ANY thing! But the original STCW78 code which uscg signed specifically states that our licenses will be equal to other IMO nations licensing systems. No other nation (reputable) has a “near coastal” endorsement. NONE. To meet the agreed upon code, they have to ‘up’ the exam/service/time to get the licenses. So there is no way that will fly.
What I meant by 'Not easily upgradeable" is: The person will have to take the ENTIRE exam for oceans, 1600 tons. Not just piece meal of what they missed before. Similar to everyone having to take FL each time for a license upgrade. It used to be, once is enough. IMO says each time, so guess what? We get to d it each time now!
My comment about the difficulty about celestial is from two guys who I went to CMTI with. They both said celestial was a snap after being ‘honed’ on the terrestrial course. If not doing celestial all at once, why wait until it is stale again? Yes, agreed if sea time is short, but then again, someone getting a 500 ton license should not be a novice I am thinking?
They CAN’T grandfather anyone UP to a higher license. IMO regs prohibit this. We all have to meet the (new) original license requirements to get a higher license.
There’s going to be a whole raft of people who have these (old) 150, 200, 500 NC or oceans, licenses. They won’t be taken away. But they won’t just be handed a higher license at renewal either.
Based on what is written in Section 11.410, I believe that they will allow an upgrade to 1600GT from 500GT if the applicant for upgrade meets the following, as stated in that section: [FONT=Melior][SIZE=1]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[FONT=Melior][SIZE=1][FONT=Melior][SIZE=1]LEFT If an applicant holds a license or
endorsement for master or mate issued
before [EFFECTIVE DATE OF FINAL
RULE] for service on vessels of not more
than 500 GRT/1,200 GT, and an
accompanying STCW endorsement, he
or she may apply for an upgrade:
(1) The tonnage limitation on an
applicant’s endorsement will be
increased to authorize service on vessels
of less than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT if the
applicant provides evidence of 6
months of service on vessels of:
(i) 75 GRT or more for a mate’s license
or endorsement; or
(ii) 150 GRT/375 GT or more for a
master’s license or endorsement.
(2) The service required in paragraph
(d)(1) of this section may have been
acquired before the applicant qualified
for his or her present license or
endorsement of not more than 500 GRT/
1,200 GT, and it may have been used to[/LEFT]
qualify for that license or endorsement.
[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]