http://www.brymar-consulting.com/wp-content/uploads/Misc/CVC_POL_12-07_Training_Endorsements.pdf
Coast Guard Policy Letter CVC 12-07, It’s about STCW 2010 and some new courses that will eventually be required. Also Able Seaman Deck and Able Seaman Engine
[QUOTE=dgillum214;85946]Coast Guard Policy Letter CVC 12-07, It’s about STCW 2010 and some new courses that will eventually be required. Also Able Seaman Deck and Able Seaman Engine[/QUOTE]
There were (3) PLs posted on NMC’s website in the last few days. I did not read in detail, but it looks as though the ECDIS certifications are being added on our STCW. I already have it on Liberia…I’m actually surprised that NMC was this quick to the table.
a. The 2010 amendments to the STCW establish new endorsements, and revise other
existing endorsements. Consistent with these changes, upon publication of this policy
letter, the Coast Guard will begin issuing endorsements for the following:
i. Able Seafarer-Deck (AS-D)
ii. Able Seafarer-Engine (AS-E)
ABLE SEAFARER??..Geez…political correctness has just gone too far.
[QUOTE=injunear;85974]a. ABLE SEAFARER??..Geez…political correctness has just gone too far.[/QUOTE]
You ain’t seen nothing. It is part of the reason I retired. They wanted to control your thoughts too.
[QUOTE=anchorman;85972]There were (3) PLs posted on NMC’s website in the last few days. I did not read in detail, but it looks as though the ECDIS certifications are being added on our STCW. I already have it on Liberia…I’m actually surprised that NMC was this quick to the table.[/QUOTE]
It’s actually not adding ECDIS certification, as much as it is placing a limitation after 12/31/2016 if you don’t have ECDIS. As of this policy. if you are issued OICNW or Chief Mate/Master and tyou have taken an approved ECDIS course, you ill just get the usual endorsement. If you have not taken an ECDIS course, the STCW endorsement will note that it won’t be valid for ECDIS after 12/31/2016. This limitation can be removed at any time by showing you took an ECDIS course.
I wonder if they’'ll change it to tankerperson from tankerMAN.
Just curious…What is it about ECDIS that it is deemed necessary to take some sort of course to use it, and what does the course involve?
[QUOTE=otnmbrd;86182]Just curious…What is it about ECDIS that it is deemed necessary to take some sort of course to use it, and what does the course involve?[/QUOTE]
Time (32 hours I believe) and money (depends on the course) for a certification. You never actually have to have seen one just pass the class.
But seriously, ECDIS is a great tool but like anything else you need to understand its capabilities and limitations. The best way to explain why it is necessary is to read the definition of an ECDIS ( a Cray Computer) as opposed to chart plotter (a calculator) and you will quickly see why a course is required for certification so it can’t be used as an excuse for grounding or a collision.
I’m curious to see if the FAA over-regulates commercial pilots as much as we are regulated. These regulations are becoming like a bad cocaine habit cycle. Need more sea time to maintain license, Need more time off to attend classes, Need more money to pay for classes. Is there ever gonna be an end to this shit? I think maybe it’s time to take that VCR repair home study course or work my way up to shift manager at McDonalds!
The airlines pay for the classes & pay the pilots to take them.
My days of testing are over, but back when they started requiring some of these “certifications”, in most cases I had all ready had some
extensive practical use of the equipment in question.
My biggest problem, then, with most of these courses was the inclusion of so much technical gibberish which for the most part was of no practical
use to me and that most of us thought was intended to fill out the course so as to justify it to and for the “Regulators”, i.e. I have a problem
with needing 40hrs (or 32) of training to us an ECDIS…personal opinion…I’m just having a problem with this whole certification process, especially it’s cost and actual benefit to the license holder…comments?
[QUOTE=otnmbrd;86231]My days of testing are over, but back when they started requiring some of these “certifications”, in most cases I had all ready had some
extensive practical use of the equipment in question.
My biggest problem, then, with most of these courses was the inclusion of so much technical gibberish which for the most part was of no practical
use to me and that most of us thought was intended to fill out the course so as to justify it to and for the “Regulators”, i.e. I have a problem
with needing 40hrs (or 32) of training to us an ECDIS…personal opinion…I’m just having a problem with this whole certification process, especially it’s cost and actual benefit to the license holder…comments?[/QUOTE]
The ECDIS course I took at MITAGS was actually pretty good. IMO model courses are required to have a certain amount of content, and you are suppose to have a working knowledge of technical “gibberish” by the end of the course. The last thing you want - is a watch stander with ambiguities cause by improper data management or not knowing limitations of equipment. Remember, ECDIS is your charts and take the place of plotting. They replace their paper counterparts. 32 hours is not that much training considering the importance…and time saved correcting paper charts.
Anyone that took ECDIS will probably tell you that it was one of the most useful courses taken.
[QUOTE=Tugted;86228]The airlines pay for the classes & pay the pilots to take them.[/QUOTE]
So does my company and many others.
Anchorman, do you think the CG will allow the paper charts to go away? It seems the CG would still require updated charts for a back up.
[QUOTE=ryanwood86;86236]Anchorman, do you think the CG will allow the paper charts to go away? It seems the CG would still require updated charts for a back up.[/QUOTE]
Sooner or later they will. The USCG is very slow with new regulations, and even slower getting rid of old ones. Unfortunately, it’s inherent in their process, but it will happen.
I have been on Foreign flagged vessels for the last few years; I almost forgot that the USCG is still requiring paper.
I have to disagree with you that ECDIS is one of the most useful courses. I took it at Star Center on a Transas system. I learned a few things - mostly the ‘technical gibberish’ - and a few tips for creating a voyage plan and some general use of a Transas ECDIS. That’s all fine and dandy except when I go to work we have a Furuno integrated bridge with Furuno ECDIS included (absolute CRAP). Now the technical jargon is the same as are the basic requirements of an ECDIS, but the use of the system couldn’t be any more dissimilar. So in that regard, the class was useless. And the technical jargon really isn’t all that helpful either.
Of course the vetters now require an ECDIS certificate, but is the company sending anyone? Nope. I’m the only deck officer onboard with an ‘approved’ ECDIS course within the last 5 years. The CM and Master have a course from years ago that they do not recognize. And never mind that, the vetters then want you to have ‘type-specific’ training, which I think would be incredibly useful, since that’s all I got out of the course at Star Center. I was on one of the ships as a new build in the yard, and the Furuno tech came out to give us some training. Took almost 2 days and was helpful. Three months later I get a certificate in the mail for ‘familiarization’, and on the bottom you know what it says? “Not valid for type-specific training.” WTF?!?!
As for going paperless, I think it will be a while before the USCG allows it. I sailed on a foreign tanker that was paperless and it worked beautifully. However, I don’t see it coming to a port near you anytime soon.
Where is the directive stated in STCW that the Advanced Navigation course has to be taken within one year of completing an approved ECDIS course? I see the training facilities all advertising this. It does not appear to be regulated as such by NMC at this time. They do not even want to see those certificates on applications at this time. And won’t until 2017.
This is a course description for Advanced Navigation:
Any applicant who has successfully completed this 80-hour Advanced Navigation course, including successful demonstration of all practical assessments, will satisfy the Advanced Navigation training requirements for STCW certification as Master or Chief Mate on vessels of 500 or more gross tonnage (ITC). The practical assessments conducted in this course will be accepted as the equivalent of the following assessments from the National Assessment Guidelines for Table A-II/2 of the STCW Code; M-1-1A; M-1-1B; M-1-2G; M-1-2H; M-1-2I; M-1-3A; M-1-4A; M-2-1A; M-2-1B; M-2-1C; M-2-1D; M-2-1E; M-2-1F; M-6-3A; M-6-3B; and M-6-3C. Applicants who have successfully completed your course need not present completed “Control Sheets” for these assessments in application for STCW certification.
I did the on board assessments in lieu of the course. Is their any stated policy that these be completed within the one year of completing the approved ECDIS course? Or is the one year time limitation merely a manufactured rule designed by the training facilities? Just curious, I haven’t been able to find anything written about this in the CFR’s.
[QUOTE=rjbpilot;86269]Where is the directive stated in STCW that the Advanced Navigation course has to be taken within one year of completing an approved ECDIS course? I see the training facilities all advertising this. It does not appear to be regulated as such by NMC at this time. They do not even want to see those certificates on applications at this time. And won’t until 2017.
This is a course description for Advanced Navigation:
Any applicant who has successfully completed this 80-hour Advanced Navigation course, including successful demonstration of all practical assessments, will satisfy the Advanced Navigation training requirements for STCW certification as Master or Chief Mate on vessels of 500 or more gross tonnage (ITC). The practical assessments conducted in this course will be accepted as the equivalent of the following assessments from the National Assessment Guidelines for Table A-II/2 of the STCW Code; M-1-1A; M-1-1B; M-1-2G; M-1-2H; M-1-2I; M-1-3A; M-1-4A; M-2-1A; M-2-1B; M-2-1C; M-2-1D; M-2-1E; M-2-1F; M-6-3A; M-6-3B; and M-6-3C. Applicants who have successfully completed your course need not present completed “Control Sheets” for these assessments in application for STCW certification.
I did the on board assessments in lieu of the course. Is their any stated policy that these be completed within the one year of completing the approved ECDIS course? Or is the one year time limitation merely a manufactured rule designed by the training facilities? Just curious, I haven’t been able to find anything written about this in the CFR’s.[/QUOTE]
Ask the school. It’s part of their approval letter from NMC. Not all schools had ECDIS as part of their Advanced Navigation course, but some did. ECDIS will require training in the class room. Even the assessments require the use of a simulator.
I took the ECDIS class in 2011. When applying for Master NC I consulted Chuck Kakuska about the one year rule. He said The NMC doesn’t even want to see that stuff yet. Just wondered how relevant it was and if it was even being monitored or enforced at this point. Does not seem to be.