STCW NVICs

The Coast Guard has published the next series of NVICs to implement the December 24, 2013, regulation change. These 10 NVICs include those for most STCW endorsements.

The NVICs are available here: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/stcw/STCW_rule.asp

As anyone applying for one of these endorsements is probably grandfathered and may qualify under the old regulations until January 1, 2017, pay particular attention to the “grandfathering” section of Enclosure 1 to the various NVICs.

They were signed Monday. My posting this Friday afternoon is not nefarious, I can’t log into gCaptain from the office (same issues others have had, it’s not blocked by the USCG) and didn’t get around to it sooner.

Consider this important enough to bump this back up.

Avid reader of gcaptain, but my first post.
Mr. Cavo, thank you for regularly sharing your expertise. I’ll even venture to speak for many when I say it’s greatly appreciated.
Impossible to risk getting skewered by pointed sticks because I have new questions that have to do with these new regulations which posted Monday. However I might get some sticks just for asking some dumb questions. Whatever, bring em.
Short story: I last sailed in 2004. I have 160 days sea time and my basic MMD (OS) and TWIC. (Everything else I had expired, except I was a able to test for my Lifeboatman and Tankerman Assist). I’m doing the whole Louisiana gig- in fact I put in my 2 weeks at my shore job, bought a 1- way ticket out here and not going back until I’m coming off a ship. I’ve done my rounds the last couple days at all the companies with no bites. So I’ve signed up for RFPNW at Fletcher and STCW BST at Delgado.
Naturally, no school will have changed their curriculum that fast. I am interested in doing all the training and requisite experience necessary to make this my profession and career. I want to be sure I’m not wasting time taking classes that may change in a month or whatever and I may have to do again.
I actually did attempt to read the STCW NVICs. As best as I can tell, I am safe with the current training I’ll be taking next week as it will still be valid with accrued sea-time by the time 2017 rolls around. (Hence Mr. Cavo’s statement to the effect of most everyone being grandfathered). And it looks like if I play my cards right, I could actually make Able Seaman - Deck (I guess that what it’s going to be called now??) before then.
I guess my only real question is: these courses I’m taking next week - are they going to remain valid in their current form long enough to justify taking right now? Just want to be crystal clear before I throw down $1300 on Monday.
Actually a simple yes/no will suffice. And maybe some pointy sticks just so I can feel initiated.

Come on J.D. give us a thumbnail synopsis of these new regs. Digest this into a single post. What is the biggest change being enacted?

In accordance with 46 CFR 11.305 and STCW Regulation II/2, an applicant for an STCW endorsement as Master on Vessels of 3,000 GT or More (Management Level) must provide evidence of:

  1. 36 months of service as officer in charge of a navigational watch on vessels operating in oceans, near coastal waters and/or Great Lakes; however, this period may be reduced to not less than 24 months if not less than 12 months of such service has been served as Chief Mate. Service on inland waters, bays, or sounds that are navigable waters of the United States may be substituted for up to 50 percent of the total required service. Experience gained in the engine department may be creditable for up to 3 months of the required service;

I believe this is a new requirement, I thought after 12 months chief mate time you could upgrade to master, seems they now require additional sea time

[QUOTE=Tugboattim;136917]In accordance with 46 CFR 11.305 and STCW Regulation II/2, an applicant for an STCW endorsement as Master on Vessels of 3,000 GT or More (Management Level) must provide evidence of:

  1. 36 months of service as officer in charge of a navigational watch on vessels operating in oceans, near coastal waters and/or Great Lakes; however, this period may be reduced to not less than 24 months if not less than 12 months of such service has been served as Chief Mate. Service on inland waters, bays, or sounds that are navigable waters of the United States may be substituted for up to 50 percent of the total required service. Experience gained in the engine department may be creditable for up to 3 months of the required service;

I believe this is a new requirement, I thought after 12 months chief mate time you could upgrade to master, seems they now require additional sea time[/QUOTE]

Not really. It’s new in that the old regulations did not have anything on how to get the various STCW endorsements. But, it’s the same as was applied in the past. The license for Chief Mate Unlimited requires you to have one year while holding as Second Mate, and Second Mate requires one year holding Third Mate. Add up the total and you have 3 years total. Does this mean you no longer have to get time as Chief Mate for the STCW endorsement? See 46 CFR 11.201(a): “…An applicant for any STCW endorsement must hold the appropriate national endorsement unless otherwise specified.” The service requirements for the license (officer endorsement) for Master Unlimited in 46 CFR 11.404 are not changed, service as Chief Mate is still required.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;136902]Come on J.D. give us a thumbnail synopsis of these new regs. Digest this into a single post. What is the biggest change being enacted?[/QUOTE]

Oh, the irony. Where’s my point-ED stick (it’s not a pointY stick… see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Defence_Against_Fresh_Fruit) when I need it?

I did this not too long ago, see: http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/maritime-training-licensing/13709-stcw-final-rule-2.html#post126832

Here’s another I don’t think I mentioned in that previous post. If you hold an STCW endorsement corresponding to for Master 500 GRT or 1600 GRT, you do not need OICNW assessments if you go to 3rd Mate. See 2.b on page 2 of Encl 1 to the OICNW NVIC (12-14), and/or page 15 of Encl 2 to the Grandfathering NVIC (02-14).

Sort of related to pointed sticks, note the sample entry for assessor and vessel name on the next to last page of Encl 3 to Master/Chief Mate 3,000 GT or More

[QUOTE=kfSeadog;136894]I guess my only real question is: these courses I’m taking next week - are they going to remain valid in their current form long enough to justify taking right now? Just want to be crystal clear before I throw down $1300 on Monday.
Actually a simple yes/no will suffice. And maybe some pointy sticks just so I can feel initiated.[/QUOTE]

The new rule generally added new course requirements, but made little, if any, changes to what has to be in the courses that were previously required. While the rule added new courses to renew Basic Training, Advanced FF, and Proficiency in Survival Craft, it didn’t change the original course requirements. So courses approved for these things now will likely remain valid in the future. You should be good now, but when you renew after 2017, you’ll probably need some courses.

Since some of your time for AB is from 2004, as long as you get the endorsements by January 1, 2017 you should be grandfathered to the new STCW endorsement as Able Seafarer-Deck (the “old” endorsements for the various Able Seaman endorsements are the same, the domestic or national endorsements are separate from the STCW). So look at the portion of Enclosure 1 of the Able Seafarer Deck NVIC that applies for getting the endorsement before January 1, 2017.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;136883]The Coast Guard has published the next series of NVICs to implement the December 24, 2013, regulation change. These 10 NVICs include those for most STCW endorsements.

The NVICs are available here: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/stcw/STCW_rule.asp

As anyone applying for one of these endorsements is probably grandfathered and may qualify under the old regulations until January 1, 2017, pay particular attention to the “grandfathering” section of Enclosure 1 to the various NVICs.

They were signed Monday. My posting this Friday afternoon is not nefarious, I can’t log into gCaptain from the office (same issues others have had, it’s not blocked by the USCG) and didn’t get around to it sooner.[/QUOTE]

The STCW 2010 will spell the end of the US Merchant Marine.
Most of this is pretty useless. Sitting in a 35 hour power point presentation doesn’t make a more professional and educated mariner.
Rather than focus on these things we need to focus on practical skills.
I see too many mariners that can’t steer a steady course, know what lights they are looking at, know how to tie up or let go a ship or even tie a simple bowline.
Classes for classes sake is not a solution and that’s what the STCW 2010 is, classes for classes sake.

[QUOTE=Polaris;136924]…I see too many mariners that can’t steer a steady course, know what lights they are looking .[/QUOTE]

Who signed off their RFPNW assessments for being able to do these things? And how has STCW made it worse than before when all you had to do is have your butt on a vessel for 12 or 18 months to become an AB, without even being required to ever set foot in the wheelhouse?

As much as extra classes go, supply and demand, tougher it is theoretically the fewer mariners there will be and that means more demand for those that remain current.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;136927]Who signed off their RFPNW assessments for being able to do these things? And how has STCW made it worse than before when all you had to do is have your butt on a vessel for 12 or 18 months to become an AB, without even being required to ever set foot in the wheelhouse?[/QUOTE]

I have no idea who signed off on there RFPNW but it’s obvious that they can’t perform these basic functions. STCW has made it worse because now these guys go sit in a power point presentation and are spoon fed the answers for a multiple choice exam to earn a meaningless certificate that they present to the coast guard to earn an endorsement. Truth is those sign offs are pretty meaningless since the majority of them seem to be just pencil whipped.
The new system is a paperwork shuffle that’s all it is, it’s a shoreside CYA saying that these individuals are “qualified”.
People are more concerned with having the course certificate or the sign off the actually becoming competent. It’s less about doing the job and more about having a piece of paper.

It’s a feel good thing for the CG cause they can go to congress and say look at we are doing.
The Union schools love it cause they get more students than ever before who now make up their income base instead of actual sailing jobs.

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[QUOTE=z-drive;136930]As much as extra classes go, supply and demand, tougher is is fewer mariners there will be and that means more demand for those that remain current.[/QUOTE]

Keep wishing for that, what will happen is it will make it easier to replace Americans with low wage foreigners.

HAHA! Such a funny little man you are! Anyway, we all know it is “point-ED stick” but I don’t want the Monty Python lawyers (aka Doug and Dinsdale) comin round, chaining me to the back of a tank and takin me for a scrape for infringing upon their lovely shrubbery!

Besides you never know when your number is on a loaded exploding pineapple!

I did this not too long ago, see: http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/maritime-training-licensing/13709-stcw-final-rule-2.html#post126832

Of course, I know you did but many of us here have very short memories or in my case, no memory whatsoever! In fact, I have completely forgotten everything I ever knew about being a seafarer but through clever subterfuge and blatant intimidation manage to fool the fools on the ships I serve into believing I know what I am doing. Been working for over 30years now and I am now a master at it. Amazing the bullshit you can get away with if you believe it yourself!

[QUOTE=kfSeadog;136894]Avid reader of gcaptain, but my first post.[/QUOTE]

I find no record of you having paid your posting fee yet. You can’t post here without paying first. The price is $1 for one post but only $8 for ten. If you want to become a true power poster here you need to apply for an account. For power posting you can get a thousand post bulk deal for only $600 which is what I do.

Please send your payment by PayPal to quint@blatantbullshit.com at your first opportunity or I shall sick the gCaptain hounds on you!

just remember the hounds are always hungry…in fact they haven’t been fed since they devoured Uniblab and TMAcadet1

nice doggies…

.

Thank you for the affirmation and clarification Mr. Cavo.
Interesting, in poring over the NVIC’s again for the last couple hours, I see no provision for AB ratings (OSV, Special, Limited, Unlimited) other than to grant their re- or continued-endorsement for those who already have them. I.e. after Jan. 2017, if I understand correct, there is just one rating: Able Seafarer - Deck (unless I completely missed it somewhere). I think it’s great that those AB Unlimiteds sailing will get to keep that endorsement and receive their commensurate pay that they’ve earned with their seniority. But someone who now enters as an AS-D who puts in a few years time in, is still maxed out as the same rated AS-D? I can imagine companies will eventually use one monotone day rate no matter if you’re a freshly minted AS-D or one with 5 yrs under your belt. So it behooves all those already endorsed to keep their old AB endorsements.
Inapplicable to those who move up with licenses, but there are obviously many ABs who are perfectly content to stay as an AB to do that job well.

Thank you C.Cap’n, I’ll get right on it. Do you take Bitcoins?

[QUOTE=c.captain;136934]

just remember the hounds are always hungry…in fact they haven’t been fed since they devoured Uniblab and TMAcadet1

.[/QUOTE]

Not devoured at all. Just lurking these days. Stay safe out there.

[QUOTE=Uniblab;137043]Not devoured at all. Just lurking these days. Stay safe out there.[/QUOTE]

well if you came here for an argument, then you are in the right place but verbal abuse or being hit on the head lessons are next door…

//youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

but you still have to pay…

btw Captain Blab, I still need to know…"is it safe?" Well, is it?

.

@ C.Captain,Thanks for finding that ,must be one of the best Monty Pythons Ive seen, If Im looking for an argument ,I just talk to my wife

Thank you Mr Cavo for the clarification.

Thanks C. Cap’n, I’ll get right on it.