Shot down, need advice

So I was turned down at the 1st stage for a deckhand job with a major inland towing company that is absolutely hiring those spots. I asked the girl I spoke with why and of course she passed me on to someone else’s voicemail. After two attempts to get answers I’m not sure where to go from here. I would like to know what criteria I failed to meet so I can work on it. Should I continue to pester this person for answers?

Pestering them may or may not lead to results. But it will increase your blood pressure. There is a fair amount of towing companies out there. And depending on how far you are willing to travel you should be able to find a job. Just keep looking.

You are probably screwing up the interviews. Interviewing is a skill that must be learned through practice. Just keep interviewing, figure out what your mistakes are, and correct them. You should be able to find some sort of a career counselor, perhaps at a job service, to interview you and give you some tips. You can also find books about how to interview at book stores, and there are lots of interviewing tips online.

It is usually easier to get hired at smaller companies.

Some people are simply not employable in any job. Some people are unlikely to ever get a seagoing job. There are a couple of other job hunters who post on here from time to time who have not had success after many months of supposedly looking for jobs — those people will probably never find jobs because they are probably not employable.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;75949]You are probably screwing up the interviews. Interviewing is a skill that must be learned through practice. Just keep interviewing, figure out what your mistakes are, and correct them. You should be able to find some sort of a career counselor, perhaps at a job service, to interview you and give you some tips. You can also find books about how to interview at book stores, and there are lots of interviewing tips online.

It is usually easier to get hired at smaller companies.

Some people are simply not employable in any job. Some people are unlikely to ever get a seagoing job. There are a couple of other job hunters who post on here from time to time who have not had success after many months of supposedly looking for jobs — those people will probably never find jobs because they are probably not employable.[/QUOTE]

No the point is I never even GOT an interview. My initial application was shot down and I need to know why. The company touts their entry level training program and their ‘fair hiring practices’. I would just like to know what disqualified me. Of course I’ll keep looking.

Most likely your application was shot down because some guy walked through the door with his bags packed and filled out an application on the premises, and was interviewed and hired right on the spot, for the job that you only applied for by email. The advantages of knocking on doors and going to companies in person with your bags packed have been explained many times on gcaptain.

Take a copy of your application to a career counselor or job service and ask them what’s wrong with it. Maybe something on your application needs to be explained differently.

[QUOTE=gcsaylor;75956]No the point is I never even GOT an interview. My initial application was shot down and I need to know why. The company touts their entry level training program and their ‘fair hiring practices’. I would just like to know what disqualified me. Of course I’ll keep looking.[/QUOTE]

I work shore side now and can give you a little insight on what may have happened. Believe it or not, employers look at your work history and use that either for or against you. Several jobs in a couple of years throws up a few red flags that could get you dismissed pretty quick. Grammar is another one that never ceases to amaze me. It’s amazing how many guys can’t spell basic words or make any sense in a paragraph. Unrealistic salary expectations for the skills you bring to the table is another. Plenty of guys with a first issue 100T license think they are worth $500/day. Sorry, it’s not happening. One that always cracks me up is guys with absolutely no experience just looking for a job and put “negotiable” in the “salary desired.”. It’s not negotiable. You bring nothing to the table so it’s essentially a take it or leave it situation.

It costs companies lots of money to make a hire so they want to make sure they are getting the best person they possibly can. A deckhand that has 6 months of experience looks better than someone with no experience. Guys with no experience are like flipping a coin in regards if they will hack it or what kind of employee will develop. Just keep at it and present yourself as a Professional. We get calls all day long from guys bitching that no one called them back because they put in an application. We get over 75 apps/day and can’t possibly call every single person. Harassing, bitching, etc… definitely doesn’t put a good vibe from you with the HR folks. A lot of hiring has to do with timing as well.

[QUOTE=Saltine;76013]One that always cracks me up is guys with absolutely no experience just looking for a job and put “negotiable” in the “salary desired.”. It’s not negotiable. You bring nothing to the table so it’s essentially a take it or leave it situation.

[/QUOTE]

Saltine - I appreciate your post and insight.

So what would be an appropriate answer for a person to answer to that question when they are looking for a job, want to build time and are willing to be flexible with what an prospective employer is willing to pay?

I am working for a good company that has treated me well, and hopefully will not be knocking on doors again. But for those that are, it would be helpful to know how to answer that question on the job application.

Many thanks!

Don’t take the hiring process personal. You may get an answer to your question but how do you know it’s the truth. You don’t! Remember, all interviewing and hiring situations are mostly subjective and self-serving. Humans administer the hiring path and despite any companies best practices, the “best” candidate for the job usually doesn’t get hired.

As the job candidate, you are subject to all of the human moods, whims, emotions, and hidden agendas. Job candidates rarely have a clue as to what the HR people are really looking for. Oft times as not, neither do the HR people. Sometimes, HR already has someone for the job ( a customers idiot son or daughter) and they are only advertising the position for legal reasons. The point being is that you are not aware of the entire agenda at any particular company at any given time.

Don’t be concerned with it and never take it personal.

So now you have me curious. I’ve always put ‘negotiable’ in the salary desired box, just because I didn’t want to undercut myself from the going pay rate.

What do you find that works best? Would you rather see ‘market rate’? One certainly doesn’t want to leave it blank, because then the application becomes incomplete. I’ve always been afraid to put in an arbitrary number just so I don’t cost myself an interview.

I would think it would be best to leave it blank, if you get an offer you don’t like negotiate from there. If they really want to hire you I would think there would be some wiggle room.

I was using 250-350 a day. Depending on the size of the company and what they were actually paying FROM READING ON HERE. Some companys have a scale that pays X for each endorsment or doc that you have.

RANT - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

I’m not sure that the “Lifeboatman” Unlim endorsment I have did me any good towards the job that I got EXCEPT showing that I can goto school and learn or I have the drive to make myself more “Able” which is why I took it. I want to be the best,well trained “Able Seaman” I can be. After 90 days with the company I got hired on with NEEDS me to goto school I’ll be there. (after 90 they will pay) If I see something that can benifit myself and company prior to thatI’ll pay for it and just chalk the expense up to my becoming more “Able” Be ready to invest in your OWN future. (During my interview I told them that I was going to start saving 10% of each check for schooling in my off time, and Iam.)

I know some of you are thinking WTF this guy isnt even ON a Ship yet and already he’s making plans and trying to figure out which path to take. (deck or engine) Without a map/plans/goals you get lost real quick… Also this line of work is not like some shore job where so-in-so has to retire before you can move up. I might be naive’ to think this way but the only person holding you back IS YOU.

[QUOTE=Saltine;76013]I work shore side now and can give you a little insight on what may have happened. Believe it or not, employers look at your work history and use that either for or against you. Several jobs in a couple of years throws up a few red flags that could get you dismissed pretty quick. Grammar is another one that never ceases to amaze me. It’s amazing how many guys can’t spell basic words or make any sense in a paragraph. Unrealistic salary expectations for the skills you bring to the table is another. Plenty of guys with a first issue 100T license think they are worth $500/day. Sorry, it’s not happening. One that always cracks me up is guys with absolutely no experience just looking for a job and put “negotiable” in the “salary desired.”. It’s not negotiable. You bring nothing to the table so it’s essentially a take it or leave it situation.

It costs companies lots of money to make a hire so they want to make sure they are getting the best person they possibly can. A deckhand that has 6 months of experience looks better than someone with no experience. Guys with no experience are like flipping a coin in regards if they will hack it or what kind of employee will develop. Just keep at it and present yourself as a Professional. We get calls all day long from guys bitching that no one called them back because they put in an application. We get over 75 apps/day and can’t possibly call every single person. Harassing, bitching, etc… definitely doesn’t put a good vibe from you with the HR folks. A lot of hiring has to do with timing as well.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the ramble

I really appreciate your insight Saltine and I’ll be the first to admit that my CV is weak over the last five years. After Katrina we moved to the mountains of North Carolina. My wife took a great job but my 20+ years of marine and ship yard experience were nil. We were in a community where, other than the university, severe un/underemployment was the norm. A beautiful place to live full of vacation and second homes and tourism but little in the way of decent paying jobs other than homebuilding (think housing bubble). I actually spent the last year and a half as a ‘stay at home dad’ because of the economy and fuel prices. Twenty five years ago I was a pretty accomplished yacht delivery skipper and ocean racer. Remember we’re talking 1980-87 when oil hit $10 a barrel. There were supply boats, crewboats and rigs stacked EVERYWHERE and most of them were at that point repo’d by the Whitney or Hibernia banks. I had the seatime to get my 100t however my vision was too poor to pass the physical (before Lasik). So I went to college, got a degree and worked the business end of the shipyard industry. Still plenty of hands on but more along the lines of survey/inspection, developing budgets and estimates and problem solving.

Anyway to shorten this up, my marriage is probably over. My kids are old enough that I can be gone. I’m living again in S. Louisiana. I know I could get employment in plenty of the shipyards around but I [U]want to get my feet wet![/U] I want to get back on the water. My seatime is gone, no way to document any of that that I can think of. Most of the companies I worked for don’t exist anymore. I am confident and comfortable either on deck or in an engine room. I can pilot and navigate(celestial’s probably rusty). I can splice line and wire. I can tear down and rebuild a pump or engine. So how do I get HR to look past my current employment history and see what I have to offer. Of course starting next week I’ll have some gas money and be back on the bayou, maybe it’s just going to take that face to face minute. Hope you don’t think I’m whining, don’t want to come across that way. Thanks for all your input.

I don’t think that a few different jobs in a few years is a bad thing, as long as you can explain. Example, I was working offshore on the rigs when the BP thing went down a few years ago, ended up sitting at home for a bit so got a job with Bouchard, after 6 months there Morty was pulling his crap and I got laid off. So instead of collecting unemployment I found work at Vane brothers. 3 different jobs in a year in a half, but I am able to explain it honestly, not just “jumping ship” and its not a big deal to employers, other that the lack of common sense of working at Bouchard!!! lol

I too worked at Bouchard I quit after 4mths couldn’t work at a place wondering if I was going to get layoff or fired

Au contrar’e Mon ami… You deciding to leave Morty’s Navy shows extraordinary clarity of thinking and level headedness.

[QUOTE=seawolf159;76170]I too worked at Bouchard I quit after 4mths couldn’t work at a place wondering if I was going to get layoff or fired[/QUOTE]

That is the second company I worked at I only made it one hitch. I made one long 50 something day hitch with the evil empire. We were at one of the docks in Staten Island, when morty come down to the boat whacked out of his gord on coke or something yelling and screaming at everybody. Since I had done nothing wrong I had to tell him that I simply thought he was spam eating trailer trash. The next day I was across the habor at Gowans with Leevac, much happier!!!

[QUOTE=gcsaylor;76099]Sorry for the ramble

Twenty five years ago I was a pretty accomplished yacht delivery skipper and ocean racer. … I had the seatime to get my 100t however my vision was too poor to pass the physical (before Lasik). So I went to college, got a degree and worked the business end of the shipyard industry. Still plenty of hands on but more along the lines of survey/inspection, developing budgets and estimates and problem solving.

My seatime is gone, no way to document any of that that I can think of. Most of the companies I worked for don’t exist anymore. I am confident and comfortable either on deck or in an engine room. I can splice line and wire. I can tear down and rebuild a pump or engine. So how do I get HR to look past my current employment history and see what I have to offer. Of course starting next week I’ll have some gas money and be back on the bayou … [/QUOTE]

REPLY There are a variety of alternative ways to document your old seatime, especially if you were the owner or captain. Don’t give up on that so easily. You won’t get it all, but you can probably get some of your seatime. It would be worth it to hire someone like Andy Hammond to help you with that.

With a college degree and your shipyard experience, you might want to consider a port captain type of job at one of the better boat companies. From there you could avail yourself of all their training opportunities and move offshore if that is what you really want.

Work your contacts at the shipyards. Those are probably your best networking opportunities and references. If a manager that you know at a shipyard will call a manager he knows at a boat company on your behalf, you can get hired through the backdoor instead of doing the HR shuffle.

[QUOTE=ChiefRob;76178]That is the second company I worked at I only made it one hitch. I made one long 50 something day hitch with the evil empire. We were at one of the docks in Staten Island, when morty come down to the boat whacked out of his gord on coke or something yelling and screaming at everybody. Since I had done nothing wrong I had to tell him that I simply thought he was spam eating trailer trash.[/QUOTE]

THAT sucks - Big Time !!!

[QUOTE=ChiefRob;76178]The next day I was across the habor at Gowans with Leevac, much happier!!![/QUOTE]

Good for you … no one should have to put up with such conduct. I’m fortunate, never had to experience THAT, only a few ass hats but nothing as bad as what you posted, not even close.

[QUOTE=water;76022]Saltine - I appreciate your post and insight.

So what would be an appropriate answer for a person to answer to that question when they are looking for a job, want to build time and are willing to be flexible with what an prospective employer is willing to pay?

I am working for a good company that has treated me well, and hopefully will not be knocking on doors again. But for those that are, it would be helpful to know how to answer that question on the job application.

Many thanks![/QUOTE]

The comment I made about “negotiable” was probably a little off base but was strictly in reference to deckhands with absolutely no experience. The “salary desired” box shouldn’t even be on an application in my opinion. Everyone wants the most money you can possibly get and it leaves yourself open to someone in HR saying “Joe Blow wants too much,” find someone else before even contacting you.

Hiring is a tough job believe it or not. You can hire someone with all of the paperwork, experience, etc… and he may do an awful job. And sometimes the guys you think are suspect end up doing a great job and really suprise you. When the market is really good people are in high demand and that’s when they are looking for good money, quality boats and an all around good company to work for. At this time the employee has the upper hand and is usually in the drivers seat when it comes to negotiationg. In a down market the roles are completely reversed and the employer is in the drivers seat. You just have to know when to markety yourself and how to do it.

Going visit a potential employer makes all the difference in the world. If you show up and look professional, have all your documentation, are respectful to the staff you will usually get an interview right away whether the company is looking to hire or not. Companies are always looking for good people whether they are technically in a hiring mode or not. Good people are hard to find in any industry these days.

[QUOTE=gcsaylor;76099]Sorry for the ramble

I really appreciate your insight Saltine and I’ll be the first to admit that my CV is weak over the last five years. After Katrina we moved to the mountains of North Carolina. My wife took a great job but my 20+ years of marine and ship yard experience were nil. We were in a community where, other than the university, severe un/underemployment was the norm. A beautiful place to live full of vacation and second homes and tourism but little in the way of decent paying jobs other than homebuilding (think housing bubble). I actually spent the last year and a half as a ‘stay at home dad’ because of the economy and fuel prices. Twenty five years ago I was a pretty accomplished yacht delivery skipper and ocean racer. Remember we’re talking 1980-87 when oil hit $10 a barrel. There were supply boats, crewboats and rigs stacked EVERYWHERE and most of them were at that point repo’d by the Whitney or Hibernia banks. I had the seatime to get my 100t however my vision was too poor to pass the physical (before Lasik). So I went to college, got a degree and worked the business end of the shipyard industry. Still plenty of hands on but more along the lines of survey/inspection, developing budgets and estimates and problem solving.

Anyway to shorten this up, my marriage is probably over. My kids are old enough that I can be gone. I’m living again in S. Louisiana. I know I could get employment in plenty of the shipyards around but I [U]want to get my feet wet![/U] I want to get back on the water. My seatime is gone, no way to document any of that that I can think of. Most of the companies I worked for don’t exist anymore. I am confident and comfortable either on deck or in an engine room. I can pilot and navigate(celestial’s probably rusty). I can splice line and wire. I can tear down and rebuild a pump or engine. So how do I get HR to look past my current employment history and see what I have to offer. Of course starting next week I’ll have some gas money and be back on the bayou, maybe it’s just going to take that face to face minute. Hope you don’t think I’m whining, don’t want to come across that way. Thanks for all your input.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, there is no perfect answer to definitely get you hired on. When I was hiring folks I looked at the entire work history of the applicant to really get a feel for what he/she brought to the table. I was looking for how long someone stayed at a company, why did they leave and the experience level. If an applicant had an impressive resume but left every company for more money, what could I do so different that would stop him from leaving me as well? You have to just do the best you can to present yourself as a good hire.