Honey Boo Boo on water.
[QUOTE=brjones;96920]If you notice we are always in PFD’s and take safety very seriously, (neverlet the rescuer become the rescue E. )[/QUOTE]
I’d love to further the conversation with this guy. I always told my captains that they had to do the inherently unsafe work as safely as possible. In 10 years we never had a serious injury; not really even many minor ones. So, first, do you have a STCW Basic Safety Training? Or, in your fire fighter training, do you recall the admonition about entering a closed space without an SCBA? Or, without backup?
You may have always been in a PFD, but I saw several on the show who were not, even during dangerous procedures. Personally, I fired two captains whom I caught working without their PFDs on and who weren’t using the deadman lanyards. The job is dangerous enough without that danger being compounded by failure to use the safety equipment that is provided. There used to be a video (can’t find it at the moment) of a Sea Tow captain who’d been thrown out of his boat swimming ashore after the boat ran, under power, through a busy swimming area and beached itself. Just no call for that.
I’m not trying to call you on the carpet or anything. After all, it’s your life if you want to flush it and I’m willing to say having not been there it’s always possible I’d have made the same decision. But, at the same time, entering a closed space that has recently been on fire is a huge no-no. Basic Safety Training would reinforce that position. Opening a closed space is always a huge risk (reflash, etc.) so I doubt that I’d ever make that call unless a fully equipped fire crews were standing by with charged lines.
As a final point, you don’t get paid to protect persons. There is no such thing as “life salvage.” You ONLY get paid to protect the boat.
Just watched this circus show, these guys remind me of the glorified bounty sailors of salvage.
[QUOTE=brjones;96920]
You are talking to the person you think is an idiot, well Ithink you are an idiot If you think I can’t hold my breath for 7 seconds [/QUOTE]
THESE are the very same kind of guys that get pulled out, dead, from a confined (or enclosed) space because after all, they were just “holding their breath” for a few seconds and who can’t do that? Right?
How many of you know someone who died running into an unventilated confined, smoke-filled or otherwise compromised space “for a few seconds?” I know personally of three (in that I knew them) and anecdotally of many more.
So he wasn’t coughing. So the hell what. The carbon monoxide was already binding to the oxygen receptors on his red blood cells before he said one word to the coast guard.
What a maroon.
I hate shows like this. Serial dumbassery on display for the whole world to see with no consequences and no rebuttal, not even a freaking Darwin award to be seen. Like Hooligansailor said, Honey Boo Boo on water.
Thanks for posting his email brjones.
[QUOTE=MariaW;96419]Forgive my ignorance in all things salvage. Something I don’t understand about this show, and of course they don’t explain - how is towing a boat considered salvage? [/QUOTE]
Towing can be salvage depending on the conditions that gave rise to the to salvage. But just because its salvage doesn’t mean the salvors get big bucks for salvaging the vessel. I had a case where our client " salvaged" a vessel. That broke down. Weather was good, no imminent danger, and not a lot of skill needed to make the tow. The court found they get salvage, and awarded the making rate for to wage in the area.
If you want to know more on what makes salvage and how salvage awards are decided, google a Supreme Court case called “The Blackwall”. It’s old but sill good law.
A lot of this has to do with how yacht/pleasure boat insurance works. They assume its easier to pay a modest “salvage” claim based on the vessel’s value, risk, effort involved rather than deal with the BS of letting a boat sit on the bottom and leak oil etc, raise hell in a marina, stuff like that. Rarely it’s vulture capitalism in the real world. I once found a boat adrift while fishing (23’ CC worth probably 50k) …got a line on it and wanted a salvage claim…reality is insurance said ok we will offer you $700 (more than i would have charged for the hours work) or take us to court, I chose the check. The $700 was cheaper for them than letting it wash ashore for $x,000 damage.
They tend to race to marine assistance requests because usually the first one there gets the job. Those routine tows are what makes the $.
I haven’t seen the show but…
When I launched gCaptain 6 years ago I invested more money into it that I care to admit… all my savings plus we had a few 6 figure credit card bills… but it was ok because within a year the site was making enough money from advertising to pay it’s own way. We still had a mountain of debt high interest cc debt but a solid plan to pay it off.
When you launch a site like this the loons start pouring out of the woodwork… every tom dick and harry with a 6-pack license wants asks you questions like “How many liferings do I need on my 20’ center console”… then, if you’re dumb enough to respond by saying none, they send you a reply like “NO SIR, THE COAST GUARD AUXILIARY TOLD ME THAT LIFE-RINGS ARE MANDATORY ON FISHING VESSELS!!! HOW MANY DO I NEED”.
(thankfully, today… c.capt’s pointy stick keeps most of these types of questions off the forum 
What’s worse is the flood of emails from self proclaimed experts who think they can write and have a bug up their a$$ about some issue that’s pointless. They want their articles published to the front page along with a a picture of them in a uniform they bought at west marine.
Well after a year of running the site the bottom fell out of the financial market and we lost all our advertisers. At the same time my wife was pregnant and I lost my job. Worse we didn’t have many readers. The only 3 people on this forum at that point where me, Capt. Lee and Anchorman… and Anchorman was here mostly to bust Lee’s chops. The advice from everyone was that I should close the site and spend my time looking for a job… and I almost did.
But one of these limited tonnage captain’s in uniform, [I]Captain Richard Rodriguez,[/I] master of a 25’ “Marine Salvage Vessel” was very persistant. He had a list of concerns about the Washington State Ferries that he wanted to write about along with a number of other marine safety columns he wanted me to publish. I rolled my eyes for weeks until, finally I visited his blog and discovered… the man knew what he was talking about. So I figured what-the-hell, it’s either accept his help or close the site down, so I gave him the go ahead to publish articles on the blog.
It turns out he was right, his assessment of the State Ferry problems where accurate… they even fixed many of the problems after reading his posts… and his other articles undoubtedly helped our readers make their ships safe.
Well… Two years later I was watching the USCG’s best rescue videos of the year. The third video was of a small vessel assist boat driving between jagged rocks in high seas to salvage a small sailboat that had been blown into the rocks. My first thought was “Look at this idiot, waving off the helicopter to salvage a $50,000 sailboat… that captain is crazy”.
Then I found out who that man was… Captain Richard Rodriguez! Still thinking he was nuts I called a coast guard rescue swimmer I know who gave me the full story. I forget the details but basically… there were people on that sailboat, the helicopter couldn’t land on the rocks and the rescue swimmer had no way of jumping into the water to make the rescue… and Richard had saved their lives.
Did he do the “smart thing”? Did he perform a flawless rescue? Would I ever attempt that stunt? Probably not. Did he save lives? Yes!
So the point of this story is…
Yes there are a lot of yahoo’s in the boating world, many people wearing captain’s hats but few real masters… but there are also some real professionals doing great work! The problem is that the TV networks don’t show the full story… only the moments of crisis… the exact moments where we all tend to mess up.
I’ve never salvaged a boat from storm swept rocks like Richard but I have responded to a few serious fires aboard ship… each time we managed to put out the fire with any injuries but, that said, I’m sure glad no one video taped those fires because, in retrospect, I can think of more than one moves I made that were both stupid and dangerous (including one particularly dumb entry I made without an SCBA)
Then again maybe it would be best if we all allowed camera crews to video tape our mistakes… I’m sure we’d all have a few laughs AND learn some valuable lessons
Well after originally posting this I will say that maybe using the term"idiot" was inappropriate. I was not there to make any call about a persons intelligence. I admit it is easy for me to play Monday morning quarterback. Maybe editing can be to blame here as well as I didn’t see the whole thing as if I were actually there. I did see enough though to stand by my words in that I do not think it was a smart move to enter an enclosed space shortly after the fire was extinguished. Yes he did come out coughing as I watched the re-run to confirm. Even if a person can hold their breath for the 7 seconds, coughing still means you inhaled something. But besides that fact, you just dont open those doors to early due to re ignition and loss of all the fixed system to extinguish it again.
disclaimer: I haven’t seen the show but I’m gonna have to check this out when I get off the boat. Hopefully it’s on demand.
That being said I have worked in Alaska fishing, towing (currently), and assistance towing/salvage; I’ve been the cook, engineer, deckhand, captain, port captain, salvage master, and more. I’ve worn a lot of hats and done a lot of jobs and have a ton of respect for the jobs that people do on the water. It’s easy for guys to judge what they don’t know and it’s disappointing to see it so often on these forums. Sure, salvage can be a bit of a cowboy business and it can be dangerous but typically if you know what you’re doing it’s not. It’s also not a job for everyone, there are many times where situations call for actions that a lot of you guys would consider dangerous but they really aren’t that bad because of the experience of the salvage master/divers/swimmers/operators. It’s not a bunch of guys with a deathwish, they are very professional people who understand the risks and are willing to take them. If it wasn’t true the insurance industry would have put and end to this stuff long ago.
Not having seen the show but knowing many of the guys who own these outfits (on both coasts), I’m willing to give this kid the benefit of the doubt based on my experience in the business. I know it’s fun to bash guys and talk s*** but it’s not very “professional” to do so. It’s actually a bit disappointing to see how highly a lot of you guys think of yourselves and what you do and how little you regard the rest of the marine industries that support you and operate around you. But hey, I suppose at times the feeling is mutual.
When I worked in towing/salvage we received more commendations and contracts from the CG, Ports, Navy (who at times contracted with us instead of using their own divers), Harbor Police, Insurers, etc than I can even count and it’s based on doing things a lot of you guys would deem “stupid”. Just because you couldn’t do a job without getting your scrambled eggs tangled up in the rigging of a wrecked sailboat doesn’t mean it’s stupid, it just means it’s probably not a job for you.
Be professionals and respect your fellow mariners. The world doesn’t revolve around your great circle routes.
[QUOTE=brjones;97007]Well after originally posting this I will say that maybe using the term"idiot" was inappropriate. I was not there to make any call about a persons intelligence. I admit it is easy for me to play Monday morning quarterback. Maybe editing can be to blame here as well as I didn’t see the whole thing as if I were actually there. I did see enough though to stand by my words in that I do not think it was a smart move to enter an enclosed space shortly after the fire was extinguished. Yes he did come out coughing as I watched the re-run to confirm. Even if a person can hold their breath for the 7 seconds, coughing still means you inhaled something. But besides that fact, you just dont open those doors to early due to re ignition and loss of all the fixed system to extinguish it again.[/QUOTE]
I think the term idiot was appropriate, that move was clearly idiotic… but most of us have, at least once, done worse. So is he an idiot? We’ll have to wait to see if he learns from or repeats his mistakes …
[QUOTE=brjones;97007]Well after originally posting this I will say that maybe using the term"idiot" was inappropriate. I was not there to make any call about a persons intelligence. I admit it is easy for me to play Monday morning quarterback. Maybe editing can be to blame here as well as I didn’t see the whole thing as if I were actually there. I did see enough though to stand by my words in that I do not think it was a smart move to enter an enclosed space shortly after the fire was extinguished. Yes he did come out coughing as I watched the re-run to confirm. Even if a person can hold their breath for the 7 seconds, coughing still means you inhaled something. But besides that fact, you just dont open those doors to early due to re ignition and loss of all the fixed system to extinguish it again.[/QUOTE]
First off I will say it again that wasn;t the door to engine room, next that door was open for several minutes before what you saw , also how do you know i was coughing , oh thats right you watched the re run? got it , now i cannot comment on all the details of the show, but you saw about 45 seconds of about 10 mins, I had to speak up,do you blame me, I have several certs, hazzwhopper,I worked the B.P. Oil spill , as Deepwater Horizon Spill response team and severed 187 days straight with 3 boats and one working around the clock , I was working for Resolve Marine Group, the company cutting up the M/V. Rena, I know what hard work is. So If you would like to see some jobs or learn about our company your welcome to come to our dock go to you tube.or even our facebook , For the record I work well with my local Ctow,next If you only care about the boat before the people on board sounds like you really were a ctow owner ! thanks for clearing that up. next I make sure the people are safe then I save the vessel. Its called the right thing to do ! I have done thousands of salvages so you my friends can hide behind the keyboard. When you get a tow boat come on down to play my man, If the ketchup and mustard don’t bother me I seriously don’t think you will my man. and to the retired Ctow, oh never mind. I will not check this again, you all have fun. @ John Thank you Sir,
Not one of you were there. Its all Good my friends you can think what you like, I know I go to sea , I have to go out but I don’t have to come back, after ten years of doing this I know I worked flawless on that one, one said , i would not open without a charged line, well there was one,mr jbore, Full time blogger, next we waited before opening a hatch that wasnt connected to main fire area, next we waited before checking to see if it was taking on water. Fact is what you think is a stupid move got me a paycheck or not 10 ready! 40 So really guys Thanks for getting our show about 2300 more hits,. 
good bad its all good. I will have the captain come onto here and tell you how he felt that day and if he thought I made mistakes… One main thing you didnt see if we staged a fire line, fire exst. at every hatch or door opening before doing anything. so please find something better to talk about, i watch honey bo bo but didnt go blog about it! I deal with people who arent so bright or just made a mistake everyday, I dont tell them they are idiot. Its better to be nice better things come your way. take care.
The Sea Shepards officially have competition! If these guys got together and collectively wrote everything they know as mariners & salvers on the back of a postage stamp with a sharpie marker, they would not be able to fill half of it. Very entertaining!
Haha but that’s why it’s funny to watch.
“I have to go out, but I don’t have come back”? Really? Don’t try and be any more of a fool them you already appear to be on TV. That’s a outdated motto son. That very saying is ignorant and shows the depth and awareness of not only your own safety but the safety of your crew and those passengers you may embark on your vessel. Your so focused on making money money money, you loose situational awareness and that’s how things get bad.
[QUOTE=Downrite Marine Towing;97088]First off I will say it again that wasn;t the door to engine room, next that door was open for several minutes before what you saw , also how do you know i was coughing , oh thats right you watched the re run? got it , now i cannot comment on all the details of the show, but you saw about 45 seconds of about 10 mins, I had to speak up,do you blame me, I have several certs, hazzwhopper,I worked the B.P. Oil spill , as Deepwater Horizon Spill response team and severed 187 days straight with 3 boats and one working around the clock , I was working for Resolve Marine Group, the company cutting up the M/V. Rena, I know what hard work is. So If you would like to see some jobs or learn about our company your welcome to come to our dock go to you tube.or even our facebook , For the record I work well with my local Ctow,next If you only care about the boat before the people on board sounds like you really were a ctow owner ! thanks for clearing that up. next I make sure the people are safe then I save the vessel. Its called the right thing to do ! I have done thousands of salvages so you my friends can hide behind the keyboard. When you get a tow boat come on down to play my man, If the ketchup and mustard don’t bother me I seriously don’t think you will my man. and to the retired Ctow, oh never mind. I will not check this again, you all have fun. @ John Thank you Sir,[/QUOTE]
Well I think I said that in my response that editing can skew perception of what really happened. I do care about people before boat and if that fire re flashed every person on board would have been in danger. I wasnt making a point that the boat should be saved over people. I would rather see it sink then to harm anyone on it, including you. As far as the coughing. Why were you then? You didnt look like an out of shape fat sloth that was coughing from running around. I admit I dont have a boat in FL, but if I did, and had to call for a distress I guess I would have the other outfit on speed dial. My man
[QUOTE=Downrite Marine Towing;97090]Not one of you were there. Its all Good my friends you can think what you like, I know I go to sea , I have to go out but I don’t have to come back, after ten years of doing this I know I worked flawless on that one, one said , i would not open without a charged line, well there was one,mr jbore, Full time blogger, next we waited before opening a hatch that wasnt connected to main fire area, next we waited before checking to see if it was taking on water. Fact is what you think is a stupid move got me a paycheck or not 10 ready! 40 So really guys Thanks for getting our show about 2300 more hits,. good bad its all good. I will have the captain come onto here and tell you how he felt that day and if he thought I made mistakes… One main thing you didnt see if we staged a fire line, fire exst. at every hatch or door opening before doing anything. so please find something better to talk about, i watch honey bo bo but didnt go blog about it! I deal with people who arent so bright or just made a mistake everyday, I dont tell them they are idiot. Its better to be nice better things come your way. take care.[/QUOTE]
We dont blog about honey boo boo (funny you make the comparison to your show) because its not in our professional realm. I bet if you go to duck hunting forums you’ll see blogs about duck dynasty, or alligator forums with blogs about swamp people. I am glad you are about the money. We all like money. I am sure that if this show takes off you will make a lot of money. Just remember though, people dont watch the show to see professionals at their best. Most of the popular ones make money because of the drama. Do you think people watch duck dynasty to see how duck calls are made? No they watch it because the rest of the country thinks those guys are dumb rednecks doing dump things. For the record I am not calling anyone in the south dumb rednecks. I know a lot of smart guys down there, but the show gives off that perception. Also I dont think that all the guys on the show are bad. I seen a couple outfits that looked good. Downrite towing was not be one of them.
If you work on a coastwise tug on the east coast & need to do a c/c off Lauderdale then Downrite is the guy. They even pick you up @ the airport. Just a heads up
Maybe I can get a job with the Downrite group and be a TV legend.
[QUOTE=Downrite Marine Towing;97088]First off I will say it again that wasn;t the door to engine room, next that door was open for several minutes before what you saw , also how do you know i was coughing , oh thats right you watched the re run? got it , now i cannot comment on all the details of the show, but you saw about 45 seconds of about 10 mins, I had to speak up,do you blame me, I have several certs, hazzwhopper,I worked the B.P. Oil spill , as Deepwater Horizon Spill response team and severed 187 days straight with 3 boats and one working around the clock , I was working for Resolve Marine Group, the company cutting up the M/V. Rena, I know what hard work is. So If you would like to see some jobs or learn about our company your welcome to come to our dock go to you tube.or even our facebook , For the record I work well with my local Ctow,next If you only care about the boat before the people on board sounds like you really were a ctow owner ! thanks for clearing that up. next I make sure the people are safe then I save the vessel. Its called the right thing to do ! I have done thousands of salvages so you my friends can hide behind the keyboard. When you get a tow boat come on down to play my man, If the ketchup and mustard don’t bother me I seriously don’t think you will my man. and to the retired Ctow, oh never mind. I will not check this again, you all have fun. @ John Thank you Sir,[/QUOTE]
This is the kind of guy who snaps the carrot while standing in front of the mirror admiring himself. You meanies bruised his ego and he had to come on here to defend himself. Hazwhopper, yeah. Says he worked as a firefighter. Yeah.