Ships operated by M.L.L, USA, or to ships on time charter to Maersk Line internationally?

Is he referring to ships operated by M.L.L, USA, or to ships on time charter to Maersk Line internationally? (There is a difference)

Why don’t you ask him?

@CEUnlimited

What difference?? Pls elaborate.

The difference is that the ships operated by Maersk Line Ltd. US are owned (or on BB Chartered from parent company??), not on Time Charter from 3rd part owners/managers.

They are US-flagged and on contract to MARAD through the Maritime Security Program (MSP) for their military usefulness, not on normal commercial terms:

The rest of Maersk Line’s large fleet (owned, or chartered) are operated for commercial gain on commercial terms, without any subsidies, or “preferential cargo”.

PS> As you know full well, A.P.Møller - Mærsk does NOT do this for “patriotic reasons”. They expect a return on anything they do.

It’s a little more complicated.

The ships are owned by MLL and time chartered to Maersk Line (colloquially called “The Line” or “Big Maersk”).

A lot of the cargo carried is normal commercial cargo booked by the Line. The US Gov cargo doesn’t fill the ships.

Depending on the department, day of the week and phase of the moon the MLL ships may be viewed in the larger organization as owned or as time chartered.

1 Like

Thanks for that. I didn’t know how the arrangement between the different Maersk entities are organized.

The fact remains that the arrangement with MARAD is what makes this whole thing interesting and profitable for A.P.Møller - Mærsk. They don’t do much that isn’t. (That is why they have survived and thrived for 120 years, so far)

The extra cost of having to use US crews (which is not as great as many would like to think) is MORE than offset by the MARAD contract.

The “preferential cargo” may not fill the ships, but it certainly pay better than to carry empty containers.

I see that MLL has 18 ships in the MSP scheme at the moment, which is more than any other single company:

Not a bad way of using second hand tonnage taken from owned fleet under different Maersk entity around the world.

1 Like

THX .But we were talking about commercial pressure applied to ship’s crew resulting in continuous and unrelenting haste , what creates an environment for potential mistakes/blunders and/or even accidents or actions that may lead to accidents.

You surely heard about ETTO syndrome what means Efficiency Thoroughness Trade Off , which was well described in one of the Gard P&I magazine when it was still published. ( I have collected almost all the numbers) . People under such highthened pressure tend to do shortcus instead of sticking to precedure just to please the principals and are afraid and/or unwilling to confront their superiors.

When You have a vessel packed with a mix of east europeans , Indian/Srilankan and/or Filippino guys the effect of “power distance” may be freezing and even debilitating . I am not sure that Ship Master and/or Cheng will have balls to tell their Danish superior to stick it where the sun does not shine and do it the “safe way” .

Most of the operation of the ships is orchestrated through the big foreign MEARSK. Crewing and vessel management is partially done by the US based MLL. The US Mearsk Line Limited is mainly set up just so the company can keep the subsidy from MARAD. It also allows them to fill the some of their space with preferred US government cargo. That’s why most of the containerships are on runs to the Middle East or Northern Europe because a lot of US gov cargo is shipped in and out of those places. It’s also why there very few if any US flag ships going to South America because there simply isn’t a lot of high paying US government cargo being shipped to those places. The ships are owned by big Maersk and just transferred over to MLL for the subsidiary.

It’s actually a great deal for Maersk because there is absolutely no risk. There is nothing in the US Law that prevents them from pulling their ships out of the program and reflagging them foreign if the US ever got into a war they didn’t want to be apart of. That’s also the reason Mearsk sold its US tanker fleet because the TSP (the new similar program for tankers) was structured differently. And lastly Maersk has more ships in the program than other companies due to their acquisitions over the years.

2 Likes

US Flag Network:


Source: US Flag Network

I understand you have had a tough time dealing with A.P.Møller-Mærsk in the past.
Yes, I’m well aware of their reputation as a hard taskmaster.

My experience with them has been mainly with the Oil & Gas side of their business and in a positions were I could tell the “Danish supervisors were to stick it”. (Figuratively speaking)

I have also had the honour of flying into Esbjerg on “Maersk Air”, staying overnight at a Maersk owned hotel to next morning travel by “Maersk Helicopter Service” to a Maersk owned and operated drilling rig, working for “Maersk Oil”. Then using three towing vessels from “Maersk Supply Service” to move the rig to a new location on a Maersk operated oil field in Danish waters.
(Just as an example of the diversity of the Maersk Oil & Gas involvement)

An anecdote; “Why is the grass in Denmark green?. Because it is too difficult to paint it “Maersk Blue”, like nearly everything else in Denmark”.

2 Likes

Blue grass that was funny. :joy: :rofl: :joy: But we had to paint green paint on the grass so it was looking fresh green, when Leonid Brezhnev or Eric Honecker paid us a friendly visit in the 70ties

I am not saying i had difficult time with Maersk . It was a mix .
F or example when I had problem with locals like Maersk America or Maersk Mumbai - and believe it or not, tthose were mega-super-arrogant assholes thinking they are “kings” , that every master can be intimidated and will shut up with the tail between his legs , in such cases I went straight to Maersk Copenhagen with a letter of complaint detailing the reasons of my complete dissatisfaction with these divisions and to my great astonishment and surprise the Main Office in Copenhagen backed me up and made sure things were rectified not in 2-3 weeks but immediately!!!

Believe me, that was something what really boosted my confidence. So not everything with Maersk was bad.

I worked on Maersk chartered vessels on WAF( west africa )- Algeciras run , , ECUSA_SCUSA- south america east coast - " Maersk New Orleans" , east africa- Salalah run - on this run my Maersk Verona( ER Durban) was replaced by famous Maersk Alabama with Capt Philips and pirates did not get me but got him :wink: instead , and West Europe -far east leg on ER Felixtowe . All included abt 3.5 years total.

I have some interesting stories/adventures to tell but this can wait :wink:
Cheers

The US flag network especially the west coast run is fulfilled by non Maersk ships. Look up the individual ships and routes.
I’m not a huge fan of Maersk, I think they have too many ships in the MSP. I think other companies especially smaller US companies should be given a piece of the pie. Some small startup tramp companies would be nice. Also working with Maersk is submitting to a slow death by paperwork

The thing to remember is that with MSP the V in “VISA” drops off. It’s the intermodal network that the gov really wants access to.

The west coast service is a slot charter agreement with APL. Do they slot charter from Hapag (MTL) for SOME North Atlantic capacity?

Why are there seven points on the star?

Means that working for Maersk you must forget Saturday and Sunday. 7 working days per week.

On my first chartered by Maersk ship “Maersk Conakry " in 1995 i saw their motto” what can be measured , can be improved " and for things that can not be measured they figured and introduced KPI.

When his ship Valkyrien foundered on the coast of Scotland in 1883, Danish Captain Peter Maersk MØller thought he saw a seven-pointed star in the sky. Even in that moment of disaster, MØller, an optimist if ever there was one, decided that he had witnessed an omen of good fortune. Apparently he was right: today the family flag, a seven-pointed white star on a light blue field, is known the world over.

3 Likes

What type of ships have you worked on where Saturday and Sunday are off days? Like, you only stand your watch?

Well, I guess ive always worked for the wrong places, because thats soem luxury I’ve never experienced. Wvery outfit I’ve worked at is bell-to-bell, or past bells. 12 hours minimum every day, every day is the same.

I believe that the law on larger vessels specifies: No non-essential work (like chipping and painting) on Sunday.

Essential work like standing watch underway, departures and arrivals and cargo still must be done on Sunday.

That is the Sailor Sunday custom on many smaller vessels as well.

Saturday is a normal day.

The law says that?

1 Like

46 CFR § 15.710 / 46 USC 8104.

Technically I think think its limited to Sundays in port but many sea lawyers will use this to knock off early.

(2)an individual may not be required to do unnecessary work on Sundays, New Year’s Day, July 4th, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, or Christmas Day, when the vessel is in a safe harbor, but this clause does not prevent dispatch of a vessel on a voyage;

Also the law says you are not reqquired to work more than 8 hours.

2 Likes