Senator John McCain has died

Rest In Peace. A real American hero and patriot. He was completely wrong about the US Merchant Marine and plenty of other things, but overall a good man who worked hard for his country.


He did not like the Jones Act.

I could not agree more about the man…with the exception of his fight to repeal the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, McCain was as true an American as one could find. A maverick in just about every sense he stood against his own party in a time when party politics seem to always come before the good of the Nation. His record in Washington was not perfect by any means but in comparison with his fellows in the US Congress he stood head and shoulder above the rest as one of the most honorable and just. I never understood how any Navy veteran could ever stand against the US Merchant Marine and that position he held has gone to his grave but I will forever say that I certainly wished he had been elected president in 2000 and wonder what our Nation would be like today if he had been? I surely believe that the USA would not be nearly so ill as it is now.


If General Butler was correct about “War is a racket” then the world lost one of its largest rackateers in recent history.

In 2011 women in Syria had a long history of driving, voting & they didn’t have to be accompanied by a male to be outside or covered head to toe in pitch black. Muslims, Jews & Christians had houses of worship next door to each other. In 2011 the women of Saudia Arabia couldn’t vote, drive, be in public alone or wear pants, teeshirts or dresses. Only the Muslim faith can be practiced & owning a Bible lead to imprisonment, torture & even execution.

McCain, Obama, the CIA & others in DC did all they could to support the king of Saudia Arabia but wanted to get rid of Syria’s ruler in favor of the lawlessness type of government that they have in Iraq & Libya.

The humanitarian crisis in the Middle East that resulted in 100Ks deaths & millions fleeing to Europe & the US was a well coordinated evil plan designed by McCain, Obama & the CIA. It was all easily predicted by those who opposed the US’s evil scheme. All the death, destruction & wasted money on McCain parts was for nothing. Not only is Asad still in power we now have Asaad’s sworn enemy ISIS to deal with.

The world is better with the warmongering McCain out of it. He did more harm than good in his later years.


I was deeply saddened when I saw on the news last night of John McCain’s passing. With the exception of his views regarding the Jones Act I held him in high regard. Upon a little soul searching I am not sure I could have lived what he experienced and come out of it all as well as he. With politics often described as a blood sport he had the temerity to correct the slander of his opponent (Obama during the 2008 Presidential race) during a town hall meeting and say Obama was a decent family man [and] citizen that he just happened to have disagreements with on fundamental issues. That little episode in my opinion showed character.

With regards to Syria and the comments made by @Sand_Pebble; the US has had a long history of trying to overlay our system of values onto an area of the world that doesn’t have hat sort of history. It does not work. That is not to say cultures and governments cannot evolve but it takes time and resolve of the local populous. Do we support a secular minority authoritarian dictatorship or a group that originally protested demanding democratic reforms and the release of political prisoners? Unfortunately for all things quickly escalated. It didn’t help our history with the Assad regime was predominantly adversarial (Re. Israel and Syria’s long standing relationship with the USSR/Russia). Obama was probably right in being leery about getting involved. What a Gordian knot! In an area of the world where it is often said, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, war makes strange bedfellows. At the end of the day however your enemy will still be your enemy.

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I wrote-in the late John McCain’s name in my ballot for President in the 2016 election. I agree on most of his positions especially the Jones Act. Here’s why. Timothy Taylor expounds on the Cato Institute’s stand on repeal of that outdated law here:

In paragraphs 11 and 12, he concludes that the problem with the Jones Act is as follows:

“As a general rule, it is unlikely that the solution for a problem is identical to the cause of the problem. But after nearly a century of protection from international competition sheltered US ship-building and shipping to compete with foreign competition and thus led it into near-obsolescence, the reason for keeping the Jones Act in place seems to be that, without it, the US shipping and ship-building industry would have a hard time competing. It’s a little like arguing that the cure for a drug addition is a continuing supply of the drug to which you are addicted.”

“I’m willing to have a discussion about what policy steps might be useful in creating a US ship-building and shipping industry that is internationally competitive. The necessary steps might be dramatic and costly. But the first step in that discussion is the acknowledgement that the long-run effects of the Jones Act have been terrible and counterproductive policy for the US shipbuilding and shipping industries. It has rendered those industries essentially unable to compete on the world stage, while creating costs throughout the rest of the US economy and reducing US military security. Any plan for US shipbuilding and shipping which doesn’t focus on how to bring the Jones Act to an end is not serious.”

I also agree with McCain’s stand on enhanced interrogation with one important exception. The last time we dealt with a suicidal adversary, Imperial Japan, it took two atomic bombs to bring them to their senses. I believe that those who attempt suicidal terrorism and their supporters forfeit all human rights and may be subjected to any form of effective enhanced interrogation. The more humane forms are most likely to be the most effective, but an unrestrained policy will put advocates of terrorism on notice that their methods will be extremely costly. No more Geneva Convention protection for these criminals.

I hope that John McCain from his perch on high will not seriously object to this reasonable exception to his benevolent entreaty.

I bet he would. For a start, if we torture other people, what grounds do we have to object to them torturing us? And once you have torturers working, you have to find work for them to do.


With regard to the Jones Act, that is glib, but ignorant and uninformed bullshit.

Just what type of “captain” are you offering your expertise?

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He objected absolutely:

I guess you get tortured for half a decade and you form some strong opinions about it.

I prefer to live in a country where we defend human rights period, and that we don’t let terrorists set our standards for us. Being 1% better than the enemy you’re fighting is not nearly good enough.


Totally agree.

I read all five hundred pages of the Joint Intelligence Committee’s Executive Summary, and it was revolting.

I was a Hospital Corpsman '69-'73, and have various naval officers in the family; and I absolutely do not consent to have this sort of thing done in my name.


He did not as you say “object absolutely”. His entreaty was only about combatants. Suicidal terrorists and their supporters are not combatants. Defending the human rights of people who do not value them, want them or respect them by debasing life and glorifying death is nonsensical.

This is a nonsensical statement unless you alone can define who is a human being, Human rights are universal. Either you are a human being or your are not. As abhorrent as any political or religious belief may be at any point in time in history you still have rights as a human being. The Nazis and Stalinists that murdered millions of men women and children in very inhumane ways were still human beings. Many were found guilty of behaving in inhumane ways and were hung or otherwise executed. That no one person, religious or political group decides who is a human being is the basis for civilization.


Enhanced interrogation, or torture if you will, doesn’t work. It does not provide accurate information. If you grab my earlobe with a channel lock or deprive me of sleep, or hang me upside down and beat the soles of my feet, I may end up telling you anything to get you to stop. Or if I am well prepared- as many terror types are- I may tell you nothing at all.

Then there is the whole ethical thing. We ought not stoop to the level of an enemy, no matter how odious.

I did not like McCain. I did respect his service and contribution to the nation, and his personal sacrifice.

I do not agree with the response from a certain individual on high who is behaving like a petulant, scowling child. He should not have to have been coerced into paying due respect to the man. That’s part of his job, and it’s about time he does it without dragging his feet.


Objectively, it appears he wasn’t much of an officer and/or a pilot. But being the son of an active admiral and grandson of an admiral does allow lots of special treatment—possibly even while being held a POW.

McCain -- Did He Show the Right Stuff?
Good read, and merely an except below:

His record as a midshipman at the U.S. Naval Academy was dismal. He piled up demerits left and right for breaking the rules, and barely passed his schoolwork, graduating 894th in a class of 899.

That might have been checked off to youthful rebellion. Plenty of kids spent their college years partying but then sobered up after they were slapped in the face by the reality of making it in the outside world. But after he left Annapolis, McCain continued to show the same attitude that had almost got him kicked out of the naval academy.

He barely passed flight school. And then he crashed two airplanes and damaged a third.

The first crash took place during advanced flight training at Corpus Christi, Texas. According to McCain, the engine stalled while he was practicing landings. The plane fell into the water of the bay just off the airfield and knocked him unconscious. McCain woke up and somehow managed to get out of the cockpit and escaped serious injury. Investigators reported that they started the recovered engine without any problem, and their report left open the possibility of pilot error.

The next accident took place in Spain while McCain was assigned to an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean Sea. He tried to fly his propeller-driven A-1 fighter-bomber under a row of pylon-supported electric power lines. This was a “hotdogging” stunt by U.S. pilots in Europe that had caused outrage. McCain’s plane hit and damaged the lines so badly that thousands of people lost power.

“My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes,” McCain wrote later, “and created a small international incident.”

In 1965, McCain flew a navy airplane to Philadelphia to attend the Army-Navy football game. On the way back to his base in Norfolk, Virginia, the plane’s engine quit, he said, so he bailed out. The plane crashed and was destroyed.

In the U.S. Navy, for a pilot to crash one plane was pushing it. To crash two often resulted in an official investigation to determine if he should be taken off flight status. How McCain got away with crashing two airplanes and smashing power lines in Spain was a mystery, although other pilots thought it had to do with his family connections.

McCain volunteered for Vietnam and was assigned to an A-4 bomber squadron on the USS Forrestal. He was soon to be 31 years old and held the rank of lieutenant commander, equal to that of army major. On the morning of July 29, 1967, McCain was sitting in the cockpit of his Skyhawk waiting to be launched by the ship’s catapult. Another plane accidentally set off a Zuni missile that hit the fuel tank of McCain’s A-4, touching off a fire that spread rapidly across the ship. McCain managed to escape injury, but 134 sailors died and many others were badly burned.

It was the worst U.S. Navy accident since World War Two and the fourth serious accident McCain had been involved in since becoming a pilot. His reputation for being a “hotdog”—a show-off pilot who broke the rules—led to rumors that McCain had caused the fire by trying to scare the pilot behind him by suddenly shooting flames out of his tail exhaust. There was no evidence McCain was at fault and the fire was ruled accidental. But the rumors persisted.

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Yet another view…

This paragraph is the most absurd and odious piece of crap I have seen in this forum in ages. I realize you just quoted it but it colors the entire post as rumor mongering garbage.

I have no great respect for McCain’s attempts to sink the merchant marine and his willingness to lie with scum to achieve the aims of his handlers but your quoted tome is pure partisan bullshit.

I did not write it, just presented it here. But let’s break it down…I agree there is some fact and obviously some hyperbole.

“It was the worst U.S. Navy accident since World War Two and the fourth serious accident McCain had been involved in since becoming a pilot”. Worst acciddent (loss of life) since WWII—I’d have to verify, but probably fact. 4th accident McCain involved with, True.

“His reputation for being a “hotdog”—a show-off pilot who broke the rules—led to rumors that McCain had caused the fire by trying to scare the pilot behind him by suddenly shooting flames out of his tail exhaust.” Conjecture, but presented a possibility that A)rumors existed and B)probable cause for rumors to exist

“There was no evidence McCain was at fault and the fire was ruled accidental. But the rumors persisted.” Fact: Reports/investigations/etc did not find McCain at fault.

Personally, I believe in statistics…just saying.

I can’t speak for johnny.dollar but the disdain for McCain has nothing to do with partisan b.s. for me. When I read he had died I took sigh of relief. The guy never meet a war or military police action that he didn’t love & want to entangle the US in with. It was the military industrial complex villians like McCain that got us into Vietnam. Killing millions of people around the world under the guise of protecting our freedom was the bi-partisan game that McCain was perfect at. McCain, Senator Bob Corker, H. Clinton, the CIA, Obama & the American Media knew exactly what was in store for Syria & Libya if we disposed of their leaders because we did the same exact thing in Iraq not even 10 years previous! The US was writing blank checks for one side of the conflict & Russia was supporting the other! Where have we seen that before? Everything that happened with the countless deaths & millions of refugees from Syria & Libya was easily predicted before hand & McCain & his bi-partisan buddies still pulled the trigger for war. It was all an evil plan from the beginning.

Every parent of a US service personal & every person in the Middle East should rejoice that one of the US’s biggest warmongers is dead.

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Then of course you know that statistics concern the behavior of large numbers. They have nothing whatsoever to say about individual events.