I work as a 3rd engineer on a drill ship in the GOM. My 2nd engineer just recently got promoted to Mechanic II. Also, he recently just upgraded his MMC to 1st engineer. At the end of each rotation he gets a seatime letter stating he has sailed as a 1st engineer. Please correct me if I am wrong but I didn’t think one could get sea time for working as a Mechanic II on a drill ship. Anyone else see this happening where they work?
[QUOTE=monkey72;153580]I work as a 3rd engineer on a drill ship in the GOM. My 2nd engineer just recently got promoted to Mechanic II. Also, he recently just upgraded his MMC to 1st engineer. At the end of each rotation he gets a seatime letter stating he has sailed as a 1st engineer. Please correct me if I am wrong but I didn’t think one could get sea time for working as a Mechanic II on a drill ship. Anyone else see this happening where they work?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely at Transocean and Noble.
Absolute bullshit.
Capt should have his licensed burned and then Marine Mgr should be decapitated.
More fucking MODU mariner fraud and corruption!!!
I went from AB to Unlimited Master with a DP cert, all because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
It comes down to what billet he fills according to the COI. A company can call the Chief Engineer technical leader supervisor or whatever they want to call them this days for administrative or payroll reasons. But at the end of the day he will get Chief Engineers sea time. The same goes for some for a “Second Captain” you can call it whatever you want, but he will get sea time as mate. With that said I am not sure what a Mechanic II is or what kind of jobs they do! But he must or at least should be filling the 1st billet. You did say that it was a promotion from 2nd AE.
N0AA does temp promotions for engineers, which can be a little confusing. But it’s generally done with unlimited licenses and the person is still sailing within the scope of the license. It’s an admin thing in order to fill the billet and the person gets the additional pay as well.
[QUOTE=PR-9;153884]It comes down to what billet he fills according to the COI. A company can call the Chief Engineer technical leader supervisor or whatever they want to call them this days for administrative or payroll reasons. But at the end of the day he will get Chief Engineers sea time. The same goes for some for a “Second Captain” you can call it whatever you want, but he will get sea time as mate. With that said I am not sure what a Mechanic II is or what kind of jobs they do! But he must or at least should be filling the 1st billet. You did say that it was a promotion from 2nd AE.[/QUOTE]
PR-9 - This individual fills a Mechanic II billet which is part of the Drilling crew. We have a fully staffed marine engine department including a 1st engineer. It was a lateral promotion. The requirements of Mechanic II can be attained without a marine engineering license. The same “game” is happening with the Electrical Technicians and Electricians. We have a full complement of marine engine crew yet Electricians for example are getting “seatime” as motorman while there are already three motorman filling the drill ship’s billet and COI requirements for the flag of convenience. Unreal…
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;153789]
More fucking MODU mariner fraud and corruption!!![/QUOTE]
Been going on for a long time. Had a 2nd on a RRF ship once who had never sailed before, got his ticket on an oil platform off California coast. He got fired after flooding the purifier room with HFO for the second time and contaminating the ballast system by opening a X-connect.
It is one of those unintended consequences of the admirals selling out to the oil patch.
Such animosity towards people who work on MODUs and have upgraded their license. So sorry for picking a career that I have excelled in. I would say this, bring on any bluewater Unlimited Master onto my ship and I guarantee that he would not last a week doing what I do at my level. Its a different game and animal than the traditional bluewater shipping.
[QUOTE=PDCMATE;153980] Its a different game and animal than the traditional bluewater shipping.[/QUOTE]
And that is precisely the point. Time spend on a MODU or a platform is so different from sailing that time on them should not be counted toward a seagoing license.
The animosity is toward people who, with the help of sold out admirals, have obtained a license under what might easily be described as fraudulent terms. If you want a sea going license, go to sea. If you want to be a platform sitter, go sit on one. You admitted that it is a different game and animal. Don’t pretend to be qualified to work in my engine room.
It’s all different!
You can't go from been the Master or Chief Mate on a container ship (where all your loading and discharge plans are done by someone shore side) to a Tanker (as Master). At the same time you can't go from been a Master on a Tanker to be the Master on a Drillship.
All of the sectors in our industry require some form of specific experience or specialty knowledge of that particular trade. So the argument "you can't do what I do" is an ignorant one. Because we all know that without the proper background and/or proper experience no one can do what you do!!
So if you have someone sailing onboard you vessel without the proper experience for the Billet. Blame your company for hiring someone unqualified for the position!
The word "Unlimited" in your license it's only referring to tonnage not knowledge!![QUOTE=Steamer;153993]And that is precisely the point. Time spend on a MODU or a platform is so different from sailing that time on them should not be counted toward a seagoing license.
The animosity is toward people who, with the help of sold out admirals, have obtained a license under what might easily be described as fraudulent terms. If you want a sea going license, go to sea. If you want to be a platform sitter, go sit on one. You admitted that it is a different game and animal. Don’t pretend to be qualified to work in my engine room.[/QUOTE]
what we should have are licenses specific to vessel type along the lines of airplane pilots although theirs are based on manufacturer and model…maritime licenses would be based on vessel occupation. Only the lowest level officer positions would be available to one without the type rating (so one can get the experience to serve in a higher capacity). Impossible under those terms to go master tanker to master drillship without going down to the bottom and working your way back up into the position. It will lock people in to where they choose to serve in the industry but the quality factor would increase as a result. Make people earn their positions as opposed to being given as some gift.
While that sounds like a reasonable approach for an employer making hiring decisions, I don’t agree with it for licensing.
Let’s create mariners with a broad experience and a broad skill set who can fairly quickly learn a new type of vessel, new trade, new area. Let’s not pidgin-hole mariners, and turn everyone into a one trick pony. That is the problem, not the solution.
The general licensing systems used seem to work well enough. Also, no licensing at all worked pretty well for thousands of years. The last thing we need is a system that requires more courses, and more chasing of specific types of seatime on USCG checklists.
We have more than enough Big Government knows best mircomanagement in our lives.
[QUOTE=c.captain;154026]what we should have are licenses specific to vessel type …[/QUOTE]
We already have something close to that, at least as close as it can or maybe should be, the requirement for type specific training and experience such as tankshipand Ro-Ro Pax specific stuff. I can’t speak to the master issue other than saying it is the mate who carries the load as far as cargo is concerned. Don’t take it personally but I see a lot of masters as often nothing more than figureheads who create more in-port problems because they have a political stake in the process.
I don’t think I have ever worked with a tanker master who didn’t pay his dues as a tanker mate, certainly never met one who came over directly from a Ro-Ro or boxboat so it might be a bit specious to include the master as part of the problem of unqualified but perfectly certificated officers working in positions beyond their skill level. At least at the master and chief level the company has a strong motive to prevent platform sitters from moving into those positions. At lower levels the unions can send whoever has the card to take the job. Remember when SeaLand started its own qualification system? That short circuited the type of problem we are talking about but it was a pain in the ass for everyone (except MEBA school) for a long time.
The part of letting platform sitters (PS) work on ships is that, like the 2nd engineer I mentioned, they have never seen HFO, or many of the systems used on ships such as aux or waste heat boilers and most propulsion systems. Anyone can remember enough to pass a test but without hands on experience under the supervision or oversight of an experienced person his test taking skills just make him dangerous. Someone has to cover the PS butts and with minimum manning so low now it creates a dangerous burden on other department members. If some PS wants to work on a ship he should be required to acquire sailing time first and if that means working unlicensed or as an entry level 3rd, he and the industry will be better for it.
[QUOTE=c.captain;154026]what we should have are licenses specific to vessel type along the lines of airplane pilots although theirs are based on manufacturer and model…maritime licenses would be based on vessel occupation. Only the lowest level officer positions would be available to one without the type rating (so one can get the experience to serve in a higher capacity). Impossible under those terms to go master tanker to master drillship without going down to the bottom and working your way back up into the position. It will lock people in to where they choose to serve in the industry but the quality factor would increase as a result. Make people earn their positions as opposed to being given as some gift.[/QUOTE]
Commercial airline pilots obtain much of their training in a simulator. Simulator time is logged in the training portion of a pilots logbook and x number of hours count as part of the total qualifying time toward a license. Would you be in favor of such a structure for mariner licensing? Of course, this would be yet another boondoggle for the schools…
I don’t think the license for your specialty would work. Where would it stop, where would it begin? If you are saying that you will have license for just a MODU, why would you not think that an unlimited master on a modu could not go to a pipe lay or construction vessel, or OSV and such and to continue a high level of professionalism? I would never think I could go to a tanker or box boat as a master or even a chief mate, I would never do that. This all comes down to the hiring process and the companies allowing inexperience to be present on these type of purpose built vessels, thats the bottom line. They still don’t understand the specialty behind these jobs.
Fyi, I’m on a 6th generation drills hip that runs HFO, has boilers, purifiers, etc. Both Chef Engineers came from deep sea, and had to work themselves up to Chief Engineer. Going from 1st Engineer to Chief Engineer on a drill ship the steepest learning curve in the industry - hands down. PDCMate’s comments were more along the line of knowing that a Chief Engineer on a MODU must add to his portfolio of knowledge - drilling equipment, systems and controls, as well as Subsea systems. Of course, I’m no engineer, far from it. But, by reading the points above, not much evolution of thought there. It’s pretty much the way it is. If you move from one sector to the other, you need to step down (blame your own organization if this is not practiced) Chances are, you came from another sector to begin with, particularly if your on a MODU
[QUOTE=Steamer;154048] Remember when SeaLand started its own qualification system? That short circuited the type of problem we are talking about but it was a pain in the ass for everyone (except MEBA school) for a long time.[/QUOTE]
At the time SeaLand had one of the top paying contracts. As such they felt they could require the engineers both permanent and those dispatched from the halls have a higher skill set. None of the courses they required were ship type or class specific.
The basic here is for the rest of our lives, we will always need to do continue education and training, no matter what vessel you are on, or specialty you are working in. It will always be like that. Anybody that has done the training to Unlimited Master or C/E can always learn something else and do well in that specialty. I believe everyone has that ability to learn new things and that’s what we have to embrace from an industry stand point. No one knows everything in the maritime industry and we all can cross over, but have to realize that sometimes extra training or step downs will be the norm and what is expected to get the knowledge of the specific vessel and specialty that vessel performs.
A great thread has developed…
However, quite simply I have a 2 A/E working as a Mechanic II. The Mechanic II position does not require a maritime credential. We have a full compliment of marine engineers. This individual is getting “sea time” for working as a Mechanic II. This “pencil whipping” of sea time only contributes to more unqualified and dangerous upper level officers. The integrity lies in each one of us to check the ones that want to sit down and slide uphill…
[QUOTE=monkey72;154133]A great thread has developed…
However, quite simply I have a 2 A/E working as a Mechanic II. The Mechanic II position does not require a maritime credential. We have a full compliment of marine engineers. This individual is getting “sea time” for working as a Mechanic II. This “pencil whipping” of sea time only contributes to more unqualified and dangerous upper level officers. The integrity lies in each one of us to check the ones that want to sit down and slide uphill…[/QUOTE]
That would be like a survey tech on a research ship whose time at sea counts for an AB or Mate ticket (if the Master were to fudge the letter)…they do some of the functions, but not nearly all of them. Really unfair to others.
If anything, I’ve slid backward…but all my choice. I enjoy the challenges and the learning opportunities of the job, it beats sitting at a desk. It’s a shame you have those who take advantage of the system everywhere you go. I left management work tired of the game players, but games are played everywhere, sad to say.