ATT all non-ship mariners

Professional Mariner Forum
1

Just trying to help.

I see a regular pattern (clearly entrenched way before I left shipping) of mariner’s having troubles getting proof of THEIR sea time via these ridiculous sea service letters from HR / Crew Coordinators / etc.
I hear the same stories from all ranks from boat to boat about weeks and hitches going by waiting for these letters from the office while being fed excuses of how they just forgot, it was screwed up and will be re-typed before you get off NEXT hitch, or how they only do it on a certain day of the week (which is conveniently after all boats have completed crew change for the week).

As corny as it may sound, enough is enough. Also, I really got the impression that more than a few mariners (at least in the GOM) don’t know this from even exists.

Before disembarking:

Fill out 3 copies of 718A.
You and the Master sign all 3. It would also be very wise to stamp once or twice (all 3 pieces) with vessel stamp which should include at least IMO number or official number.
Keep the original and give 2 to the office, or leave 2 with the Master for him/her to distribute to the office.
The company SHALL retain one copy for a 3 years, and one copy SHALL be mailed to the NMC.

If your vessel is approved (by the USCG) for a 2 watch system and you are in fact standing 12 hour watches (NOT to be interpreted as 12 hour days, b/c 8 hrs of watch and 4 hrs OT does not count), simply make a notation near the dates (joining or departing) that you worked 12 hr watches.

This is how ship’s mariner’s deal with all their sea time. When it’s time to upgrade, renew, etc., we don’t call the office. We just submit the application, and the NMC looks up our time off of filed 718A discharges to determine if we qualify for what we are applying for. This form has been around since WW II and hasn’t changed much.

Serving as a US credentialed mariner on an inspected US flag vessel, the master SHALL sign and the company SHALL handle them as clearly instructed. There is no choice in the matter.

I would love to see use of this form take hold on all OSVs, ATBs, tugs, small cruise ships, etc. I gather sea service letters are commonplace everywhere limited tonnage licenses / credentials are in use.
Any blow back from the office can easily be rebuffed by telling them it means less paperwork for them, and who the hell wouldn’t want that?

If, down the road, you have problems with the office failing to submit the copy to the NMC or least not in a timely fashion, call the NMC. There is also a process (email form) by which you can get your entire sea service record from the NMC.

here is the form…

https://www.uscg.mil/forms/cg/CG_718A.pdf

2

Sounds like a good plan. The only issues I see are:

  1. No vessel I’ve ever worked on has had a “ship’s stamp” and
  2. Who signs if you are the Master?
3

[QUOTE=JackAubrey;148203]Sounds like a good plan. The only issues I see are:

  1. No vessel I’ve ever worked on has had a “ship’s stamp” and
  2. Who signs if you are the Master?[/QUOTE]

  1. Get one. The office should handle this. If your vessel is subject to inspections, I’m surprised you don’t already have one. The entire fleet where I work just got new (replacement) stamps that are easier to use for DP logbooks. The stamp is really not that big of a deal, but it is ship’s / company’s property whose control is the master’s responsibility when it is received on the vessel. It just lends a little more credence to the discharge.

  2. You sign all the other discharges, but just to CYA , have your relief sign yours and then do the same for him when you come back.

4

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;148205]1. Get one. The office should handle this. If your vessel is subject to inspections, I’m surprised you don’t already have one. The entire fleet where I work just got new (replacement) stamps that are easier to use for DP logbooks. The stamp is really not that big of a deal, but it is ship’s / company’s property whose control is the master’s responsibility when it is received on the vessel. It just lends a little more credence to the discharge.

  1. You sign all the other discharges, but just to CYA , have your relief sign yours and then do the same for him when you come back.[/QUOTE]

Yes every vessel I’ve worked on has been subject to annual USCG inspections but seeing as they are considered passenger vessels under 100 gross registered tons I guess they are not important enough to require an official stamp. I also have not worked aboard a classed DP vessel so have never needed or even heard of a ship’s stamp until taking a DP Induction course.

While I haven’t requested a sea time letter from my current employer yet, I hope it will not be an issue to receive one in a timely manner. If it is, I don’t know if requesting a stamp would help the process or just blow their administrative minds.

5

From the rumors you hear around the tug fleet I’d say Moran could sure use this system more than anyone else! Unfortunately, I could also see the office getting pissed off at you for making them do things they see as unnecessary. Maybe you won’t get fired over it but it will probably create friction nonetheless. Never a good thing for us disposable little mariners.

Also, is it really worth it to trust the USCG to keep track of your sea-time via forms you send in? Their #1 talent is losing paperwork, so I’m inclined to ask, how has this USCG-718-A thing ever worked!? Good idea though to be sure, and I agree, I really do hope more people start using it. It would be nice to see this become the norm across tugs, OSV’s, etc…

6

[QUOTE=JackAubrey;148203]…Who signs if you are the Master?[/QUOTE]

It’s common for the Master to sign their own. I had a co-worker who had a particularly annoying way of gloating that he had served as Master, he would say he has discharges that he had to sign twice once as the mariner, and again as the Master). It’s even more obnoxious than refgering to the old issue numbers on the license (i.e. “…my license is issue 4-X”).

While it’s common to sign your own, I always recommended you get your relief to sign it. That way, it’s not only documentation of your service, but it has an independent witness, and is also evidence that you ahd a proper face to face relief.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;148200]Just trying to help.

I see a regular pattern (clearly entrenched way before I left shipping) of mariner’s having troubles getting proof of THEIR sea time via these ridiculous sea service letters from HR / Crew Coordinators / etc.
I hear the same stories from all ranks from boat to boat about weeks and hitches going by waiting for these letters from the office while being fed excuses of how they just forgot, it was screwed up and will be re-typed before you get off NEXT hitch, or how they only do it on a certain day of the week (which is conveniently after all boats have completed crew change for the week).

As corny as it may sound, enough is enough. Also, I really got the impression that more than a few mariners (at least in the GOM) don’t know this from even exists.

Before disembarking:

Fill out 3 copies of 718A.
You and the Master sign all 3. It would also be very wise to stamp once or twice (all 3 pieces) with vessel stamp which should include at least IMO number or official number.
Keep the original and give 2 to the office, or leave 2 with the Master for him/her to distribute to the office.
The company SHALL retain one copy for a 3 years, and one copy SHALL be mailed to the NMC.

If your vessel is approved (by the USCG) for a 2 watch system and you are in fact standing 12 hour watches (NOT to be interpreted as 12 hour days, b/c 8 hrs of watch and 4 hrs OT does not count), simply make a notation near the dates (joining or departing) that you worked 12 hr watches.

This is how ship’s mariner’s deal with all their sea time. When it’s time to upgrade, renew, etc., we don’t call the office. We just submit the application, and the NMC looks up our time off of filed 718A discharges to determine if we qualify for what we are applying for. This form has been around since WW II and hasn’t changed much.

Serving as a US credentialed mariner on an inspected US flag vessel, the master SHALL sign and the company SHALL handle them as clearly instructed. There is no choice in the matter.

I would love to see use of this form take hold on all OSVs, ATBs, tugs, small cruise ships, etc. I gather sea service letters are commonplace everywhere limited tonnage licenses / credentials are in use.
Any blow back from the office can easily be rebuffed by telling them it means less paperwork for them, and who the hell wouldn’t want that?

If, down the road, you have problems with the office failing to submit the copy to the NMC or least not in a timely fashion, call the NMC. There is also a process (email form) by which you can get your entire sea service record from the NMC.

here is the form…

https://www.uscg.mil/forms/cg/CG_718A.pdf[/QUOTE]

This good advice, but you might hit a few bumps when you use the sea time documentation. On vessels required to use certificates of discharge, a copy is sent to the NMC and recorded in the same database that manages your application and records your MMC. Any user can call up a record of sea service of the discharges the vessel submitted. In this case, there would be no corresponding record of the sea service in the database. So there may be some back and forth before the service is accepted. However, it’s still evidence of your service, and if you can’t get a letter of service, you have somnething that can be used and ultinmately will probably be accepted.

7

[QUOTE=JackAubrey;148236]Yes every vessel I’ve worked on has been subject to annual USCG inspections but seeing as they are considered passenger vessels under 100 gross registered tons I guess they are not important enough to require an official stamp. I also have not worked aboard a classed DP vessel so have never needed or even heard of a ship’s stamp until taking a DP Induction course.

While I haven’t requested a sea time letter from my current employer yet, I hope it will not be an issue to receive one in a timely manner. If it is, I don’t know if requesting a stamp would help the process or just blow their administrative minds.[/QUOTE]

uhhhh, like I just said, the stamp isn’t that important in the end.

8

[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;148240]From the rumors you hear around the tug fleet I’d say Moran could sure use this system more than anyone else! Unfortunately, I could also see the office getting pissed off at you for making them do things they see as unnecessary. Maybe you won’t get fired over it but it will probably create friction nonetheless. Never a good thing for us disposable little mariners.

Also, is it really worth it to trust the USCG to keep track of your sea-time via forms you send in? Their #1 talent is losing paperwork, so I’m inclined to ask, how has this USCG-718-A thing ever worked!? Good idea though to be sure, and I agree, I really do hope more people start using it. It would be nice to see this become the norm across tugs, OSV’s, etc…[/QUOTE]

Masses of companies typing up sea service letters is what isn’t necessary. 718a requires the company only to file a copy and mail a copy. They have no dog in the fight; the mariner does the only work of correctly filling it out. The company would even be fine by just mailing out a bunch of them at the end every week.

As far as trusting USCG, I’ve taken 3 license upgrade tests since 1999, and renewed twice. All were achieved through 718A. Not one problem yet. No missing forms. Same goes for my forms since 2011, after last renewal. Sea service record request as of 2 mos ago confirms all forms submitted by APL, Horizon, and MLL on file. The system works. And I can’t recall any other shipmates proclaiming problems of missing discharges.

9

[QUOTE=jdcavo;148249]It’s common for the Master to sign their own. I had a co-worker who had a particularly annoying way of gloating that he had served as Master, he would say he has discharges that he had to sign twice once as the mariner, and again as the Master). It’s even more obnoxious than refgering to the old issue numbers on the license (i.e. “…my license is issue 4-X”).

While it’s common to sign your own, I always recommended you get your relief to sign it. That way, it’s not only documentation of your service, but it has an independent witness, and is also evidence that you ahd a proper face to face relief.

      • Updated - - -

This good advice, but you might hit a few bumps when you use the sea time documentation. On vessels required to use certificates of discharge, a copy is sent to the NMC and recorded in the same database that manages your application and records your MMC. Any user can call up a record of sea service of the discharges the vessel submitted. In this case, there would be no corresponding record of the sea service in the database. So there may be some back and forth before the service is accepted. However, it’s still evidence of your service, and if you can’t get a letter of service, you have somnething that can be used and ultinmately will probably be accepted.[/QUOTE]

JD, if you are saying there would be no record of sea service on say, OSV X because it had no track record of submitting 718a previously, I agree. That’s exactly what needs to change!!! So when the NMC receives 718a for me from an OSV / company which has not previously submitted them (more accurately, to say never) do I have any reason to believe they are being processed and input to my file any different than say a discharge from MLL, APL, Matson, etc???

A question for you is does a mariner submitting these company letters instead of 718a have a legitimate sea service record (of days, rank, vessel) in the NMC database like I retrieved just recently? If not, what do they have?

10

Can we hear some more about how a sea service record request works? I didn’t know you could do that either but now I’m curious.

11

Same here. I was always told I’d have to request my whole “legacy file” but who knows if thats a thing of the past, or one in the same.

12

USCG corresponding web page:

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/records_request/default.asp

USCG form:

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/records_request/pdfs/record_request_fillable.pdf

to this address:

D05-SMB-NMC-4-Correspondence@uscg.mil

Records mailed to me 30 days after email sent. It was all there, including discharges as a deck cadet.

13

My old Company did do “Discharges” but back in 2005 during my last renewal the CG told me they would rather have the Service Letter on Company Letterhead. They said this to my face while I was standing there with my Letter of Service and a stack of Discharges.

I realize things have greatly changed since that time but thought it was worth mentioning.

14

What we really need are official Seamen’s Books that record our sea time — just like everywhere else in the world.

15

That’s really shitty that they would say that, but the reality is they don’t have a choice, either.

The reality is also that a different REC was just as likely to tell you the complete opposite. You clearly weren’t standing face to face with someone in Martinsburg, WV.

The system is complicated for those just starting out or just now making upgrades. I find that being done with RECs (other than being an initial processor of NMC applications for renewals or newly created STCW endorsements ) has made everything a hell of a lot easier. No problems with WV yet.

16

I liked the good old days, before the REC’s, when I could walk into most local USCG Captain of the Port offices hand over my papers and speak with the evaluator in person. If I didn’t like what he said, I could try a different evaluator at the next port. (There was a great difference between ports, just as there is now a great difference between evaluators at the NMC.). I can recall walking in with my papers and starting the exam the same day. I also liked walking out with my new license the same day that I finished the exam. The RECs were a big mistake. The landlocked NMC out in West Butt-Cheek is an even bigger mistake. Now we have a bunch of coal miner’s daughters who have never even seen the ocean evaluating our applications.

If you need to do something at NMC, you’d better do it now before they get bogged down for six months in applications for Security endorsements.

17

I thought the security endorsement flood came and went, why is there another one coming?

18

This is slightly off topic, but I just looked at my medical card and realized my in’tl physical expires in a week. Rats. Even if I do one tomorrow, I won’t get the card for another month. Good thing I’m planning to be home into Jan.

Everybody better keep tabs on that two year date, it’s easy to overlook.

19

As I understand it, the USCG has delayed enforcement of VPDSD until July 2015 because there are so many mariners that still need extra time to get it.

20

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;148268]JD, if you are saying there would be no record of sea service on say, OSV X because it had no track record of submitting 718a previously, I agree. That’s exactly what needs to change!!! So when the NMC receives 718a for me from an OSV / company which has not previously submitted them (more accurately, to say never) do I have any reason to believe they are being processed and input to my file any different than say a discharge from MLL, APL, Matson, etc???

A question for you is does a mariner submitting these company letters instead of 718a have a legitimate sea service record (of days, rank, vessel) in the NMC database like I retrieved just recently? If not, what do they have?[/QUOTE]

Typically the ones from a ship come in bulk, and often incclude a crew list of they were on articles. I don’t know what happens when they come in individuall;y or in small numbers for the same mariner. I’ll ask next time I am out at NMC. If they come from the vessel and are for the entire crew, they probably get recorded. Sea service letters are not currently recorded, the only record would be oin the mariner’s own file, and that may depend on whether the file is currently located at the NMC.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=tugsailor;148305]As I understand it, the USCG has delayed enforcement of VPDSD until July 2015 because there are so many mariners that still need extra time to get it.[/QUOTE]

Not the Coast Guard, IMO. The Coast Guard can only delay enforcement iun the US, so if only the Coast Guard were delaying enforcement, you would still need it internationally.

Before the extension when the original deadline was imminent, there was a last minute rush that delayed processing. If you wait until the last minute this time, a delay is possible, so if you need it and don’t have it yet, now would be a good time to apply for it.