Renewel and another sea service letter question

#1

Hello all and thank you- heres the story. My recent employer is clueless and im having a hard time getting a proper sea service letter citing the cfr’s and drug test participation along with any other key wording. I am getting down to crunch time and need to renew my license with masters of towing endorsement. Ive got everything on the checklist minus the company letter. Does anyone have a template or even an example with personal info crossed out I could give as an example. I understand there are key phrases and cfr’s to quote and a legitimate example would help me tremendously!!!
Thank you and merry Christmas!

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#2

[QUOTE=swampy;150171]Hello all and thank you- heres the story. My recent employer is clueless and im having a hard time getting a proper sea service letter citing the cfr’s and drug test participation along with any other key wording. I am getting down to crunch time and need to renew my license with masters of towing endorsement. Ive got everything on the checklist minus the company letter. Does anyone have a template or even an example with personal info crossed out I could give as an example. I understand there are key phrases and cfr’s to quote and a legitimate example would help me tremendously!!!
Thank you and merry Christmas![/QUOTE]

yes, it’s called USCG 718A.

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#3

Im also having a very hard time obtaining a sea service letter from my employer. Is there any way around the company giving you these letters, specifically the sea service letter?

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#4

[QUOTE=acesouthcoast;150202]Im also having a very hard time obtaining a sea service letter from my employer. Is there any way around the company giving you these letters, specifically the sea service letter?[/QUOTE]

See 46 CFR 10.232(a)

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#5

So if a company won’t write you a letter you can basically write your own but you need a signature from either a captain of chief engineer? What captain is going to stick their neck out to sign a letter for someone when they know the company doesn’t want to write one? Can or has the CG ever requested an updated letter directly from the company? This seems to be a pretty common problem, is there nothing in the CFRs requiring the companies to provide these letters?

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#6

[QUOTE=acesouthcoast;150202]Im also having a very hard time obtaining a sea service letter from my employer. Is there any way around the company giving you these letters, specifically the sea service letter?[/QUOTE]

Now that the US has adopted STCW, the US needs to go back to a Seaman’s Book system just like all the other STCW countries. The Master signs the Seaman’s Book and that’s all the seaman needs.

We are not in the 1920’s anymore. The Master should also be required to sign every crewman on and off — on a secure USCG website at every crew change. Each vessel and each licensed master should have a unique password (both of which would be required) to sign mariner’s on and off.

This company letter thing is subject to too much abuse.

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#7

Abuse is the keyword. Peoples careers are being manipulated by the companies control of sea service letters.

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#8

[QUOTE=acesouthcoast;150227]Abuse is the keyword. Peoples careers are being manipulated by the companies control of sea service letters.[/QUOTE]

topic already covered… http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/15838-att-ship-mariners.html

USCG 718A.

it is neither the Master nor the company’s choice if you do not have a continuous discharge book. only certain vessels are excluded from this requirement.

People’s career’s are being manipulated by these BS letters BECAUSE mariner’s let them do so.

been working for an OSV company for a year now, 718A discharge after every hitch because I’ll have it no other way.

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[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150212]So if a company won’t write you a letter you can basically write your own but you need a signature from either a captain of chief engineer? [B]What captain is going to stick their neck out to sign a letter for someone when they know the company doesn’t want to write one? [/B]Can or has the CG ever requested an updated letter directly from the company? This seems to be a pretty common problem, is there nothing in the CFRs requiring the companies to provide these letters?[/QUOTE]

The same captain who has no choice in signing YOUR discharge that YOU or HE properly filled out.

any company that would not embrace 718A is foolish for not desiring less paperwork and less responsibility and not worthy of your trust if you decide to leave after upgrading, because they don’t want you to have that opportunity.

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#9

What if the foolish company in question is one of the biggest and best companies to work for in the region? In other words leaving and going anywhere else would be a huge step backwards. I guess the 718A form that, “has already been covered” is the best bet.

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#10

[QUOTE=acesouthcoast;150292]What if the foolish company in question is one of the [B]biggest[/B] and best companies to work for in the region? In other words leaving and going anywhere else would be a huge step backwards. I guess the 718A form that, “has already been covered” is the best bet.[/QUOTE]

a company so BIG would clearly benefit by using such. if they can not figure it out, they clearly aren’t the BEST.

good luck.

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#11

I can see how in theory they would benefit but it also seems like way more paperwork for them. Having to deal with a piece of paper for every crew member after every hitch? I cant see them jumping at that even if it means they don’t have to worry about writing letters, they’d just have to file one for everyone and send another to the nmc, after every hitch or every month or whenever they feel like sending it. If the company doesn’t want to write a letter then it seems like they may want control over the mariners so can’t see them being happy about taking that away.

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#12

Its not the days of service coming into play here…I can easily show and prove that through my own log. Its the participation in a random drug testing policy, training and drills, etc. yes we do all these things but my employer is having a hard time with wording and such to give a proper letter that will be accepted. Sea time is not so much the issue as the rest of the letter! Thanks

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#13

[QUOTE=jdcavo;150208]See 46 CFR 10.232(a)[/QUOTE]

I think he means specifically what wording needs to be included to renew the towing license. Last I knew you needed wording stating that you have “participated in drills and training in conformity with 46 CFR 10.227 (e) (6) (ii)”. Does anyone know if you still need this wording or not?

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[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150297]I can see how in theory they would benefit but it also seems like way more paperwork for them. Having to deal with a piece of paper for every crew member after every hitch? I cant see them jumping at that even if it means they don’t have to worry about writing letters, they’d just have to file one for everyone and send another to the nmc, after every hitch or every month or whenever they feel like sending it. If the company doesn’t want to write a letter then it seems like they may want control over the mariners so can’t see them being happy about taking that away.[/QUOTE]

I agree, with mariners working two to four week hitches using discharges adds a ton of paperwork vs simply writing a letter every few years.

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#14

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;150577]I think he means specifically what wording needs to be included to renew the towing license. Last I knew you needed wording stating that you have “participated in drills and training in conformity with 46 CFR 10.227 (e) (6) (ii)”. Does anyone know if you still need this wording or not?[/QUOTE]

So does anyone know if that wording is still necessary?

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#15

The USCG is making it too difficult for the office to produce the seatime letters, and too easy for the office to screw them up.

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#16

“Joe blow served as master of the uninspected towing vessel ‘tugjob’ between 1/3/2001 and 1/4/2003, serving in capacity for xxxx 12-hour days. Joe blow participated in whatever CFR training and drills.”

“Drug test shit in seperate paragraph quoting CFR/sample letter verbatim.”

If you sailed different rates or upgraded license in the period the letter covers, detail that by date/vessel and days of service.

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#17

It sounds like we’ll have to start hiring license consultants to write the seatime letters for the office.

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#18

[QUOTE=z-drive;150657]“Joe blow served as master of the uninspected towing vessel ‘tugjob’ between 1/3/2001 and 1/4/2003, serving in capacity for xxxx 12-hour days. Joe blow participated in whatever CFR training and drills.”[/QUOTE]

Yes it’s easy, but I’m trying to confirm the exact CFR citation because I will probably need to tell my company what it is.

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#19

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;150666]Yes it’s easy, but I’m trying to confirm the exact CFR citation because I will probably need to tell my company what it is.[/QUOTE]

Ok. was able to find a letter from joe boss that was used with no issue. And another. this is what my company references: 46 CFR 10.277 (I)(VI)(B)

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§ 10.227 Requirements for renewal.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, an applicant for renewal of a credential must establish possession of all of the necessary qualifications before the renewal MMC will be issued.
(b) A credential may be renewed at any time during its validity and for one year after expiration.
© No credential will be renewed if it has been suspended without probation or revoked as a result of action under part 5 of this chapter or if facts that would render a renewal improper have come to the attention of the Coast Guard.
(d) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a complete application for renewal must contain the following:
(1) A completed, signed application;
(2) Beginning April 15, 2009, proof that the mariner holds a valid TWIC;
(3) The appropriate fee as set forth in § 10.219 of this part;
(4) Any uncanceled MMD, MMC, license, STCW endorsement, or COR held by the applicant. If one or more of these credentials are still valid at the time of application, a photocopy—front, back, and all attachments—will satisfy this requirement. If the applicant submits a photocopy, upon the issuance of the new MMC, the applicant must surrender the old original credential to the Coast Guard. If requested in writing at the time of submission, the old MMD, MMC, license, COR, or STCW endorsement may be returned to the applicant after cancellation;
(5) Evidence of having passed a chemical test for dangerous drugs or of qualifying for an exemption from testing in § 16.220 of this subchapter;
(6) Proof, documented on a form provided by the Coast Guard, that the applicant passed all applicable vision, hearing, medical, and/or physical exams as required by § 10.215 of this part;
(7) Consent to a Coast Guard check of the NDR for offenses described in section 205(a)(3)(A) or (B) of the National Driver Register Act of 1982, as amended;
(8) Except as provided in paragraph (d)(8)(viii) of this section, the applicant must meet the following professional requirements for renewal:
(i) The applicant must either—
(A) Present evidence of at least one year of sea service during the past five years;
(B) Pass a comprehensive, open-book exercise covering the general subject matter contained in appropriate sections of subpart (I) of this part;
© Complete an approved refresher training course; or
(D) Present evidence of employment in a position closely related to the operation, construction, or repair of vessels (either deck or engineer as appropriate) for at least three years during the past five years. An applicant for a deck license or officer endorsement with this type of employment must also demonstrate knowledge on an applicable Rules of the Road open-book exercise.
(ii) The qualification requirements for renewal of radar observer endorsement are in § 11.480 of this chapter.
(iii) Additional qualification requirements for renewal of an officer endorsement as first-class pilot are contained in § 11.713 of this chapter.
(iv) An applicant for renewal of a radio officer’s endorsement must, in addition to meeting the requirements of this section, present evidence of a currently valid license as first or second-class radiotelegraph operator issued by the Federal Communications Commission. If submitted, the original license will be returned to the applicant.
(v) An applicant for renewal of an endorsement as medical doctor or professional nurse must, in addition to meeting the requirements of this section, present evidence that he or she holds a currently valid, appropriate license as physician, surgeon, or registered nurse issued under the authority of a state or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia. Any such renewal will retain the limitations placed upon the medical license by the issuing body. There are no professional requirements for renewal of an endorsement as marine physician assistant or hospital corpsman.
(vi) An applicant for renewal of an endorsement as master or mate (pilot) of towing vessels must submit satisfactory evidence of:
B Having completed a practical demonstration of maneuvering and handling a towing vessel to the satisfaction of a designated examiner; or
(B) [U]Ongoing participation in training and drills during the validity of the license or MMC being renewed.[/U][/B]

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#20

[QUOTE=z-drive;150679]Ok. was able to find a letter from joe boss that was used with no issue. And another. this is what my company references: 46 CFR 10.277 (I)(VI)(B)[/QUOTE]

That’s what I thought, but the citation has changed to (e) (6) (ii).

§10.227 Requirements for renewal.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, an applicant for renewal of a credential must establish possession of all of the necessary qualifications before the MMC will be renewed.
(b) A credential may be renewed at any time during its validity and for 1 year after expiration.
© No credential will be renewed if it has been suspended without probation or revoked as a result of action under part 5 of this chapter or if facts that would render a renewal improper have come to the attention of the Coast Guard.
(d) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, a complete application for renewal must contain the following:
(1) A completed, signed application.
(2) Proof that the mariner either holds a valid TWIC or has applied for a TWIC.
(3)The appropriate fee as set forth in §10.219 of this part.
(4) Any uncanceled MMD, MMC, license, STCW endorsement, Certificate of Registry (COR), or Document of Continuity held by the applicant. If one or more of these credentials are still valid at the time of application, a photocopy—front, back, and all attachments—will satisfy this requirement.
(5) Evidence of having passed a chemical test for dangerous drugs or of qualifying for an exemption from testing in §16.220 of this subchapter.
(6) Applicants seeking a national endorsement must either hold an unexpired medical certificate or submit a medical certificate application.
(7) Consent to a Coast Guard check of the NDR for offenses described in section 205(a)(3)(A) or (B) of the National Driver Register Act of 1982, as amended.
(e) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(8) of this section and 46 CFR 13.120, the applicant must meet the following professional requirements for renewal:
(1) The applicant must either—
(i) Present evidence of at least 1 year of sea service during the past 5 years;
(ii) Pass a comprehensive, open-book exercise covering the general subject matter contained in appropriate sections of subpart (I) of this part;
(iii) Complete an approved refresher training course;
(iv) Provide evidence of employment as a qualified instructor or in a position closely related to the operation, construction, or repair of vessels (either deck or engineer as appropriate) for at least 3 years during the past 5 years. An applicant for a deck license or officer endorsement with this type of employment must also demonstrate knowledge on an applicable Rules of the Road open-book exercise; or
(v) Provide evidence of being a qualified instructor who has taught a Coast Guard-approved or -accepted course relevant to the endorsement or credential being applied for, at least twice within the past 5 years, therefore meeting the standards needed to receive a course completion certificate for that course.
(2) The qualification requirements for renewal of radar observer endorsement as contained in §11.480 of this subchapter.
(3) Additional qualification requirements for renewal of an officer endorsement as first-class pilot as contained in §11.713 of this subchapter.
(4) An applicant for renewal of a radio officer’s endorsement must, in addition to meeting the requirements of this section, present a copy of a currently valid license as first- or second-class radiotelegraph operator issued by the Federal Communications Commission.
(5) An applicant for renewal of an endorsement as medical doctor or professional nurse must, in addition to meeting the requirements of this section, present evidence that he or she holds a currently valid, appropriate license as physician, surgeon, or registered nurse issued under the authority of a State or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia. Any such renewal will retain the limitations placed upon the medical license by the issuing body. There are no professional requirements for renewal of an endorsement as marine physician assistant or hospital corpsman.
(6) An applicant for renewal of an endorsement as master or mate (pilot) of towing vessels, in addition to the other requirements in this paragraph, must also submit satisfactory evidence of—
(i) Having completed a practical demonstration of maneuvering and handling a towing vessel to the satisfaction of a designated examiner; or
[B]U Ongoing participation in training and drills during the validity of the license or MMC being renewed.[/U][/B]
(7) An applicant seeking to renew a tankerman endorsement must meet the additional requirements listed in §13.120 of this subchapter.

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