I’ve heard from several different people that time spent as an officer working aboard a training ship can count towards your highest license held. However, when I called the NMC they could not confirm this and had no notices available on this topic.
Has anyone received sea time while working on an academy training ship with their highest license held? For example, if you are a licensed AGT Chief Mate, but there are several Chief Mates aboard an AGT training ship working with cadets, can you receive time on your Chief Mate’s license or is only one deck officer permitted to receive time on their Chief Mate’s license? Is this simply at the discretion of the school and/or the vessel Master?
[QUOTE=cargomargo;194084]I’ve heard from several different people that time spent as an officer working aboard a training ship can count towards your highest license held. However, when I called the NMC they could not confirm this and had no notices available on this topic.
Has anyone received sea time while working on an academy training ship with their highest license held? For example, if you are a licensed AGT Chief Mate, but there are several Chief Mates aboard an AGT training ship working with cadets, can you receive time on your Chief Mate’s license or is only one deck officer permitted to receive time on their Chief Mate’s license? Is this simply at the discretion of the school and/or the vessel Master?[/QUOTE]
You will get time based on the discharge given to you. If you were hired as a 2nd, 3rd Mate or whatever position, that is the discharge you should receive. Anything else is fraud and to do is skating on very thin ice
I heard at some places you are “hired” according to your top license and then that’s what your discharge will say. What your duties will be on the ship, who knows. But my understanding is that if you are a 1st mate on paper, you get discharge saying 1st mate.
[QUOTE=cargomargo;194084]I’ve heard from several different people that time spent as an officer working aboard a training ship can count towards your highest license held. However, when I called the NMC they could not confirm this and had no notices available on this topic.
Has anyone received sea time while working on an academy training ship with their highest license held? For example, if you are a licensed AGT Chief Mate, but there are several Chief Mates aboard an AGT training ship working with cadets, can you receive time on your Chief Mate’s license or is only one deck officer permitted to receive time on their Chief Mate’s license? Is this simply at the discretion of the school and/or the vessel Master?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=johnny.dollar;194103]I heard at some places you are “hired” according to your top license and then that’s what your discharge will say. What your duties will be on the ship, who knows. But my understanding is that if you are a 1st mate on paper, you get discharge saying 1st mate.[/QUOTE]
The time counts only for the position you served in. See the definition of “Chief Mate” in 46 CFR 10.107:
[I]Chief mate means the deck officer next in rank to the master and upon whom the command of the vessel will fall in the event of incapacity of the master.[/I]
By this definition, a vessel can have only one Chief Mate.
I agree completely but I am sure this is not how this is done, on a training ship for sure your discharge will read at your highest ratin. Is there someone on this forum that can see a the documents from a maritime schools training cruise. I’m willing to bet you have lots of chief mates and even masters on the same ship at the same time. I have personally been signed onto a ship with two chief mates In that case we were both doing the job on opposite shifts or one was in training, but on a training ship the third mate watchstander with a cm license isn’t doing the cm job for sure.
Oh wow, you’re really arguing this one with a Coastie that deals with regulation compliance? I foresee an audit in the near future for all the academies now.
This is retarded. There can only be one master on the vessel. There can only be one chief mate, or bridge officer acting in the capacity of chief mate, at a time. Doesn’t matter how many more bridge license holders are running around at the same time.
And FWIW, even if you are onboard a vessel and are the next in command in case of the demise of the Master, if you do not hold a management level credential you should not receive credit as chief mate.
[QUOTE=Flyer69;194136]This is retarded. There can only be one master on the vessel. There can only be one chief mate, or bridge officer acting in the capacity of chief mate, at a time. Doesn’t matter how many more bridge license holders are running around at the same time.[/QUOTE]
In the case of two management level mates on a ship I’ve seen one called the “Chief Officer” and the other called the “First Officer”. The Chief Officer being the senior of the two.
There could be a dozen management level mates onboard at a time, only one should be designated as, and receive credit as, “Chief Mate” as defined in the CFR’s.
So we are saying the training ship has a 1st CM and a second CM, a 1st second mate and a 2nd second mate and so on? Could there be a Master and 2nd captain or would that be to silly to even fathom such a thing?
Not arguing at all. I agree 100% there is only one of each upper billet on a ship. But I know a guy who upgraded to a masters unlimited with “c/m” time from a training ship cruise he took. He was sailing as a watchstanding deck officer and teaching marlinspike for 4 hours a day.
I can’t imagine the REC is looking for ships where more than one signed on. I think it’s like a tax loophole that has been found and utilized by some people but is t necessarily the intention of the system cm
[QUOTE=Shipnc’s;194149]Not arguing at all. I agree 100% there is only one of each upper billet on a ship. But I know a guy who upgraded to a masters unlimited with “c/m” time from a training ship cruise he took. He was sailing as a watchstanding deck officer and teaching marlinspike for 4 hours a day.
I can’t imagine the REC is looking for ships where more than one signed on. I think it’s like a tax loophole that has been found and utilized by some people but is t necessarily the intention of the system cm[/QUOTE]
The training ships use certificates of discharge, they are turned into the USCG and recorded in a database. A simple query of “chief mate” and the name of the ship returns everyone who was issued that discharge. Would NMC make that query? Maybe not, but this issue now has some visibility, so who knows?
I think it’s most embarrassing for those signing the discharges as master. Such a simple thing and it looks like gaming the system to me. Maybe like previous discussions of the 12 hour day. Because they are also getting day and a half time on the training ship. It’s just a loophole that should be looked into and decide if the such is aware and ok with it or it has slipped by.
[QUOTE=Shipnc’s;194152]I think it’s most embarrassing for those signing the discharges as master. Such a simple thing and it looks like gaming the system to me. Maybe like previous discussions of the 12 hour day. Because they are also getting day and a half time on the training ship. It’s just a loophole that should be looked into and decide if the such is aware and ok with it or it has slipped by.[/QUOTE]
Day and a half on the training ship? Doesn’t sound right.
mr Cavo, clearly this issue and the possibility of crew boats and OSVs with multiple masters may mean discharge papers might be less than accurate as to actual position. So, for the good of the order, maybe you could describe the routine assessments carried out to assure discharge papers are routinely vetted or compare as you describe to ensure no funny business? Did I say ‘routine’ more than once? Maybe cause your post made it seem ‘hypothetical’ more than ‘routine’ that this system is vetted or verified in application.
I don’t know what the situation is on a training ship. What I’ve seen deep-sea is joining crew is assigned by article number, job title and job description. In the case where there is more than one crew member with the same job description each has a different article number. For example with three AB watch standers they are all ABW (AB Watch) but they each have a different article number.
For example the ABW with article number 8 is associated with a specific watch, room and emergency duties. The master is either zero or A. C/M is “1” and so forth. When extra crew comes aboard they are all assigned article numbers as well.
I don’t write out the discharges by hand anymore, it’s printed out using the payroll program with the article number that was assigned when the crew first signed on.
