Some comments:
Look at the performance of the US economy in a relative sense since 2017. It has never stopped climbing. The dollar amounts are deceptive because of inflation, true. But it’s the relative direction that matters.
Compare the US economy to China. Not only is China’s GDP far below that of the USA, more importantly the delta climb sputtered in 2023. Their GDP actually shrank. Probably grow again. More likely the years of phenomenal growth have ended
Japan’s GDP is not looking good. Inflation makes it difficult to compare years exactly but look at the drop between 2020 and 2023. Startling. Aging, shrinking population sent it on a downward trajectory. Like us they hit a demographic cliff re: retirements in 2021. Unlike us they have no immigration to grow their economy.
California, if counted as a standalone country has the 5th largest economy in the world. If its GDP continues to rise it will overtake Japan very soon. Maybe Germany in a few years.
It’s amazing that CA with a population of 42 million has a bigger GDP than India with 1.45 billion.
TX has a bigger GDP than the nation of Brazil.
And FL with a population of 23 million has a bigger GDP than the entire sprawling island nation of Indonesia with its 283 million.
Anybody that tells you that USA is a declining economic power is nuts (or lying to make money over outrage).
Several years ago I had a friendly debate with an Ecuadorian about his currency being the US dollar. He thought it was great while I continue to feel otherwise. My argument was, our US Federal Reserve, US Treasury Dept, potus, congress, military etc. should all work together to advance the US economy & policies for the benefit of the American people. That’s what national governments are supposed do. But when the Fed adjusts the interest rate, congress passes a giant spending bill or the potus/us military makes a move on the world stage none of them think about how their actions affects Ecuador. Why should they, they all work for us, not the people of Ecuador?
I use that same line of thought when I think about EU nations, the Euro & their economies/GDP. Not as much as 50 or 100 years ago, but those countries/economies are still competing against one another. But they are now hamstrung by a unifying governoring body & a common currency that really prevents one nation from getting too much of the upper hand over the others. When one country starts to suffer too much like Greece did 15 years ago, all other EU nations need to make adjustments to get Greece up to speed. When one EU country’s economy gets too hot, many of the poorly managed governments try to get on the action, siphoning off the rewards for their own. So when rating countries in the global GDP race, I count all EU countries together & divide by the number of members. It roughly puts the EU countries at 1008 billion. The EU ranks about 15th, below Indonesia on the chart linked below that doesn’t include individual US states.
Some more fun facts about the productivity of CA: The combined GDP of the just the SF Bay Area and LA county ( disregarding the rest of the state) equals the combined GDP of the great states of GA, AL, and KS.
But, but, but I heard and read numerous instances across wide swaths of the internet that Kommiefornia is a crime infested wasteland that people are leaving in droves because of the rampant violent crime, sky high taxes, and socialist policies that make the state unlivable! My understanding is that the whole state is on the verge of collapse due to the Demoncrats in government and their socialist policies.
Plus I thought when you go “woke” you go broke so why is California so affluent and prosperous? Come to think of it many of the most “woke” states such as CA, NY, and WA are also some of the most prosperous, interesting…
I love this line from an old movie, The Third Man, describing how bizarre human culture is:
“In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.”
I usually ask the people that spread the California collapse meme when I can get my cheap real estate. I have $50,000 set aside for a house in San Francisco, I should be able to get a nice one with everyone fleeing. Somehow I haven’t quite been able to.
The aims of the European Union within its borders are:
promote peace, its values and the well-being of its citizens
offer freedom, security and justice without internal borders, while also taking appropriate measures at its external borders to regulate asylum and immigration and prevent and combat crime.
Source: Aims and values | European Union
It is NOT to let one nation get too much of the upper hand over the others.
PS> What is “governoring”? Is it something like “Governator”?
The combined GDP of LA county and the SF Bay Area at $1.55 trillion almost equals that of the entire great nation of Australia at $1.7 trillion, despite the two CA cities having a combined population only 63% that of AU.
If, however, you toss in the the third biggest metro area on the U.S. West Coast, Seattle, the combined GDP rises to a little over $2 trillion, exceeding the combined GDPs of Australia and New Zealand, with the U.S. western cities having combined populations only 65% that of the combined populations of the two great countries.
When you look at the GDP of the USA you have to look at what contributes to that. The largest percent of GDP is ‘services’ at 70-77%. What are services? Number one is real estate, rental, leasing and banking. Healthcare is another major contributor to that 70+%, Manufacturing contributes about 10%.
So the ones that control the economy are the ones that control real estate, banking and health care. So if you are employed by those your future is bright. If not the services they provide will take a chunk out of your pay, especially health care and finance.
Many years ago I compared the tax I paid to my Canadian counterpart trying to convince him he paid too much tax. But once we compared line by line state tax, sales tax, property tax, federal tax and I added in health insurance we came out about even. Then he reminded me that if we lost our jobs he and his family would still have health insurance whereas I would have to pay at least triple what my group insurance paid or go without for me and my family.
@ombugge:
Well, I have nothing but love for Canada and Canadians, and I admire the way they govern themselves. I’m also embarrassed by the way CJ has insulted them.
Some observations about your post:
The national minimum wage in the USA is indeed $7.25. That applies to most Americans. But most Americans aren’t subject to it alone. Most Americans are subject to state minimum wage laws. The state minimum wage in California is $16.50. But individual counties and cities also have minimum wages. In Seattle city limits it is nearly $21/hour.
Now the Canadian minimum wage cited in your post is $10.45 an hour. But a quick Google search shows that federal Canadian minimum wage laws only apply to federal workers of different types. That is $17.30 CAD ($12.90 USD). (I have no idea where that $10.45 number comes from, and is that USD or CAD?)
Each province has a minimum wage. Taking the average of these it is $16.27 CAD ($11.37 USD). BC’s minimum wage is $17.85 CAD ($12.47 USD).
So, the number in the post you copied seems to be mixing U.S. federal minimum wage with some old Canadian provincial minimum wage figures, which is comparing apples with oranges.
I travel all around Canada. I don’t see that the size of the relative economies has any effect on people’s lives. Vancouver BC is a much grander city in every way than Seattle. Canadians own the same amount of stuff as people in the USA. The people in Nova Scotia have the same material lifestyles as people in Los Angeles, except house prices are about 1/3 in Halifax as they are in LA.
But here’s the mind-blowing thing. Having visited Halifax recently I can say that the big concern of young Halogonians is the high price of housing! The average house price of $385,000 USD is too much for them! People from Ontario are coming in and snapping up all the houses in Halifax etc.! Exactly what you hear in Seattle, but a whole different scale of economy
Another observation: Canadian healthcare is not free. It is tax-paid. Two different things. The poor and middle-class Canadians I meet are OK with their healthcare. Would have nothing to do with American healthcare. Many of upper class Canadians I meet would rather have US healthcare, but they are rich, so the cost of it is not a thing with them.
Yes and five states do not have state minimum wage laws. Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee go by the Federal $7.25/hr. Georgia, Oklahoma and Wyoming wage minimum wages is less than that for less than 10 employees. But the citizens of those states are all happy so to each their own.Their representatives feel they can live happily at that pay so it is not for us to judge
And a little less than 10% is the tech sector, which is growing. The tech sector manufactures digital constructs. When old men moan, "The USA doesn’t make anything anymore!’ it’s because their minds are stuck in the 20th-century. If you live in places like Seattle you live amongst thousands of people making digital constructs and the business is amazingly lucrative.
And highly efficient. Instead of shipping your product on a container ship, with trucking/rail at either end, you just press a button and ship it via fiber optic cable. The products are exported all around the world, but because they are digital they aren’t counted as exports.
The concept of what is an export and what is an import is increasingly a 20th-century anachronism. Gauging an economy by the amount it exports and imports is like gauging an economy by the number of railcars that are in use at any given time: it’s an indicator of the economy, sure, but not the indicator, and certainly not the most important indicator.
There are two economies in cities like LA/SF/Seattle: the tech sector, and everything else. People in the tech economy make an order of magnitude more money than everyone else. Huge amounts. The amount of money tech makes warps the entire economy/society around it. That’s why the big West Coast cities have millionaires living next to homeless people; the warping effect. Or, as my father used to put it: the biggest dog has the most fleas.
I can’t speak for all the native people of the states you mentioned, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee but I do know & lived with thousands of them over the years. I think it is safe to say the majority of them don’t want to be worried over & just be left alone. The major concern for the folks in South Carolina, Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida is skyrocketing cost of living but without a doubt, that is caused by the white flight from blue states. In no fashion or form can the increase of population & cost of living be blamed on their average, or below average birth rates. It would be nice if those arguing the point or defending the position that California & other blue states are awesome places to live could convince more Californians & blue state dwellers to stay put. Even left of center NPR news had a segment recently about how many of the families who lost their homes in the fires plan to move out of Cally instead of rebuilding. Too bad for the traditional simple, lower taxed, less traffic native residents of southeast states imo.
The opinion on this forum seems to be that our debt doesn’t matter. That because we own the dollar printing machines, we can just print enough dollars to solve all our problems.
I find this to be one of the craziest things I’ve read on this forum but that seems to be the consensus.
