Let me break it down for you because I think you don’t understand what I was saying. And you seem to be clueless about what the MEBA strategy was.
MEBA wanted to unionize ATC and OSG together. This would be harder and was more of a risk. It required collecting more pledge cards and needed more yes votes overall. The company knew this so ATC/OSG made the case to the NLRB that they were the same units not distinct bargaining units- MMP would eventually fight this and win with the NLRB because it would be easier to separate off ATC and win. The reason MEBA wanted the units to not be distinct is because OSG/ATC would agree that they are not distinct units with the NLRB when a vote was called for. If MEBA won they would have a good legal/ big leverage to say hey these are the same bargaining units all ATC and OSG. Therefore the OSG ships (16 ships / whatever the number was) should be the same wages as the higher ATC ships and be brought up immediately. Because the company agreed they are the same unit MEA would have a very good leg to stand on. Thus demanding an immediate increase for all engineers with OSG ships.
^^ you sound like a joy of a person to work with. If you work with OSG - I can see how some deck officers may have voted the way they did. I encourage you to get involved in what is going on with MEBA (hey maybe even show up to a meeting). Above all I hope you respect your Union brothers. The loss at OSG was embarrassing to say the least and we should all be embarrassed at MEBA for getting our butts kicked in the vote.
I think my favorite part are the guys (not you @Cheng) who saw these abysmal numbers and their reaction was not “huh, I wonder what we could have done better” but instead was “how dare those pricks ruin it for us! I hope they suffer and I’ll be happy if they do!”
Definitely making more and more sense why we’re in bad shape as an industry compared to all the other logistics fields where, one can only hope, the reaction would be something more like “that’s pretty crummy that OSG is blatantly flouting the labor law that protects all of us, hopefully they’re pressured into finally coming to the table so we can all bargain together come the 2026 negotiations!”
But, if folks would rather roll in the mud and cheer on the executives at the expense of other sailors, even when a successful negotiation would probably improve everyone else’s bargaining position across the deep sea industry, and if OSG succeeds it’ll likely set new precedent that hurts all unions maritime and otherwise, well, I suppose officers all have collectively:
Probably not. OSG has been using techniques that companies have used for decades. They will drag it out for years try to get a revote because so many of the original voters left the company or maybe moved up to Captain and no longer eligible. OSG is probably going to make sure they hire third mates that are anti union the brainwash them in. I think MMP could muster up a strike if they retain credibility with the mates that voted for them but that would be a huge risk because they’ve pissed off the two other Unions with some antics. So there’s a good chance AMO or MEBA wouldn’t respect it and try to walk mates of their own. Not sure the AFL-CIO rules but if MMP doesn’t have a contract maybe it’s open grabs still.
The problem with all this Union stuff is that there is 3 officer Unions. That’s one too many. There’s always one of the Unions that doesn’t want to play nice.
It should be MMP leadership should if they truly cared would put aside their pride and position themselves for a merger.
There’s probably plenty of OSG mates that are still 110% company men. I’m sure they will continue to lecture on how the union isn’t needed and how they “got all this stuff before the union and we didn’t have to pay dues back then for it”. Just like “we get paid the same as MEBA, but…blah blah”
100% correct. This is almost verbatim the language I heard from a few CMs.
I don’t have a dog in the fight and I don’t feel I am in a position to tell them how to vote or not to vote. I did lobby for MEBA because I do feel we would have more leverage during contract time where both Deck and Engine could benefit. It didn’t happen and at the end of the day, they made a choice. Was it the correct one? I don’t think so, but they are stuck with it for now.
I never saw any MEBA guys get upset. I did hear a few mates bitch about how it turned out but there was zero chance all were walking away happy.
I hope it works out for them. It’ll be interesting how things go in the near future. MEBA gets a raise tomorrow and we’ve not heard if the office will apply the same increase to the LDOs or not?
The most important thing people forget about is the other benefits that come with being a union member. Which is hard for people to wrap their heads around because there is no easy numerical comparison unlike wages. I remember talking to other classmates at OSG and other private deepsea companies when I first graduated- I attempted to crunched the numbers factoring in the cost they had to pay for insurance (which was nowhere close as good as mine) and the cost of upgrading and paying out of pocket for classes.
Factoring all these benefits in the classmates were getting paid significantly less than I was. And I feel like it also slowed down their career progression as they were hesitant to spend the money on classes. Quite a few of those classmates are now out of the industry or sailing well below us other union guys. - just my personal observation
I also think it will be interesting to see how many mates (especially junior mates) at OSG will leave if there is all this other new tonnage such as APL coming with union benefits. It’d seem like a logical move if I was in their shoes. But I guess it depends on when MMP and OSG can secure a contract.
Recentyl? Just the last reopener (2023) and yes because Mote drug the negotiation beyond July 01 and gave the mates 4% on July 01 thinking he would play with the engineers but we ended up getting 6.5%, plus another 1% for the MPB and 0.5% of the pension MOU. So effectively engine got 8.0%
OSG didn’t have to give that raise to them. I think had they not, it would have created unnecessary animosity.
I’m not advocating this representation because I know a lot of guys who are upset and as I’ve said, I don’t have a dog in this fight but… Understanding that anything can happen with the MM&P representation of OSG LDOs, if it does go through, any mate that leaves OSG before things finalize, I think would be a mistake because an A Book at MM&P is something a lot of guys work a significant period of time to get. if your going to sail and if there’s a chance in the future that you may wind up on an MM&P vessel, the A Book would be a big deal.
If it’s the same deal as when MMP acquired the old TECO ships, you wouldn’t automatically get the A-Book. Those guys held “CE” (company employee) cards and as far as I’m aware those that jumped ship and went “off the board” were re-registered as Applicants. To qualify for any book meant several years or more on that contract and even then they still had to apply to roll in with the book. So if I were them I’d be a little leery about the idea that they can just scootch over and pick it up instantly (not that any or all of them are suggesting that…)
We acquired those bulkers in Dec 2012 and a lot of the guys who squatted on those permanent jobs didn’t cross over as A-Books till as late as 2017-18. Maybe these guys got a different deal, but considering there’s a balance that needs to be maintained and folks ahead of them with more points and time in, it’s a dicey game to play.
Edit: Someone just showed me that one of their mates hit the NJ hall a few days back looking to night mate while home and his card says “APP-OSG,” so I don’t even know.
The deal MMP offered OSG mates was that they would all get A books immediately no questions asked. No waiting period, no restrictions. That’s why all the 3m voted for MMP. I assume they don’t have them yet because of the no contract. But points will and time in will be irrelevant once the 168 total A books from OSG hit. The balance will be so out of wack that it’ll be years before anyone else gets an A book.
If MMP is pulling back their promise for A books for OSG this is news. Some members are probably breathing a sign of relief. Sucks for those mates that votes specifically because they’d get an A Book.
Well based on others peoples posts it seems they actually might not get their A books. Also if you leave MMP to take a job on an AMO APL vessels you can’t rejoin MMP and retain your A book status. You have to leave MMP officially or they kick you out. Working on another unions vessel while being a member of another ( not including passthrough jobs) is a big no no.
People who have double dipped in the past have been kicked out of both unions.
It’s rare, but you’re right. I know of one who was tossed out of MEBA and MMP for this — though, considering who it was, it was a big win for both unions.
I’ve heard nothing about an MOU in place. I highly doubt it. OSG\ATC want nothing to do with MMP. By signing an MOU they would effectively recognize them
