They’ll become the new applicant ships to cut your teeth on.
Aren’t they suing each other? MEBA created a pass through with AMO anyways. Seems like the MMP/MEBA days of symbiotic bargaining are behind us.
I heard that the pass through stuff was ending. Not sure what the details are.
With which two unions?
Honestly I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure MEBA was one of them, only because the person I heard it from is a Mate in MEBA.
I heard the MEBA and MMP pass through was expiring and not being renewed. AMO and MEBA in the last year agreed to a pass through that has apparently been working well.
That sounds like it.
Agree, so we can move our conversation here which provides some history for newcomers to this topic.
For brevity, your basic question is why do I (MEBA guy) hold a grudge against MMP and or OSG/ATC mates right?
For the mates, they have reaped the benefits of MEBA membership for years without having to pay dues or otherwise be involved in being a union brother. They did this by always getting the same raises that MEBA negotiated out of OSG/ATC. When the time came to organize, it was MEBA who spearheaded the effort to get the information out, circulate the pledge cards, ALL of it, to get that process started and completed. When the time came to vote, they said thanks for all that effort but we’re signing with MMP.
For MMP, they were our longtime partner as we share some of the highest paying/best quality of life ships on the entire US flag (Matson, APL, Pasha). MEBA made organizing the OSG/ATC mates happen (see above). MMP used the work we did (which they never could have done themselves due to lack of access) to swoop in and get themselves a bunch of new billets (supposedly/eventually).
Both groups showed no loyalty and stabbed us in the back at the first opportunity they had. So… Yeah, fuck all of them and I hope this partnership (MMP-OSG/ATC mates) stays bogged down in court forever AND I am rooting for AMO (never thought I’d say that) to get the new APL ships.
@quetzalcoatlus : Hope that clears up your confusion.
I appreciate the reply; I can kind of see what you mean, but still have a hard time digesting why you or anyone would take it personally. Does your pension number go down because they went with mmp? If that was the case I could totally see being so upset.
Additionally, I think that it could also be argued that a lot of what ATC had came from the fact that it was a non-profit subsidiary of BP, with deep pockets. So, how much was thanks to that, and how much was thanks to MEBA. Not sure, don’t know.
At the end of the day, I think our disagreement lies with the fact that I think workers should choose themselves who represents them, no strings attached; you seem to believe that they should only be allowed to be represented by the union that they piggybacked off of.
We can agree to disagree, that happens and that’s fine. One union for all would be ideal.
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Ah yes, all those health and other negotiated benefits, the pension options, the training paid for by the union, the freedom to sail on different ships, all the seats at the bargaining table, curse those selfish freeloading deckies taking advantage of all those MEBA benefits without paying dues! I can clearly see how totally justified the vitrol is now. I bet the company would have made them pay to work the ships if MEBA wasn’t there to protect them.
I especially feel bad for how MEBA did all the work, collected all those pledge cards, petitioned for representation, and then got scooped right at the- oh, MM&P actually did that work, MEBA was instead an intervenor, and this is all public on the NLRB’s site for anyone to see? Huh. Well. Still. It’d be unAmerican to let the truth get in the way of some good 'ol righteous indignation. Carry on.
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We also sat across the mess and got the stinkeye from our fellow engineers when they took a 12% paycut to find their unions pension plan.
While I’m not there anymore, it would have been a cold day in hell that I would have voted for MEBA representation.
I was personally onboard handing out MEBA pledge cards dropped with us from our patrolman to interested mates when all this started. I don’t need to read a report to know what happened.
Not at all. Everyone is free to do as they will. Just as I am free to not forgive or forget getting piggybacked off of.
As I said in the other thread, this was probably a blessing in disguise as it split us away from MMP and toward AMO.
If MEBA guys were giving you stinkeye, that’s their ignorance as OSG/ OSG mates had nothing to do with that 11.7% paycut.
I know from your previous posts that you were at least a CM there so you would have been looking at a pension of probably $4500-5000/month (at today’s wage scale) for the rest of your life. Obviously much higher if you made Capt. Not worth it?
The ships OSG let go to Keystone (MEBA mates) gave feedback that the CMs were loving life as they were actually getting paid for those 16 hour days in port. Not worth it?
Well I knew it wasn’t my fault, but they were sure butthurt about it. I would have been too.
The money sounds good, but how much more do I have to work? Starting at 0 and work another 20? The OSG retirement was always very good, so I did (and confined to do) very well with the money they gave me.
Yea there were long days in port. But I made up for it at sea don’t worry.
MMP f- up the MEBA plan because MEBA was going to collect ATC and OSG pledge cards together. The company wanted them as one unit and MEBA figured if they could get the votes together the. They could immediately demand a pay bump for everyone including the engineers to ATC wages.
OSG mates wanted that A book status but I told them that there is a ton of A books floating around MMP and getting that Matson job with an A book isn’t as easy.
OSG mates made their decision though.
Good luck getting a contract! The MEBA engineers on OSG ships will never go on strike MMP !
The good thing about this whole situation is that it eliminated the those damn free loading MMP mates on express ships. Talk about mates that are free loading off MEBA. OSG mates are nothing compared to those free loaders.
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With such a splendid plan to just tell the ATC mates that they get to be the anchor for the negotiations, after having fallen 15% behind inflation since the buyout while operating ships four times the size in the most regulated waters in the world, I simply can’t fathom why they may not have leaped up and demanded to work for MEBA instead of that other nasty union that actually asked them what they wanted. Some mysteries may never be solved.
I’d just like to say though, to all the MEBA members past and present out there reading this, I don’t judge the rest of you based on the attitudes and statements of these guys in this thread. Y’all have been good shipmates, and I’ll keep doing whatever I can to not make your jobs harder from my spot on the bridge or on deck.
Nobody said that. - MEBA would’ve demand an immediate increase to all ATC wages then another obvious increase.
Doesn’t matter the mates voted for MMP good luck with your raises- oh that’s right MMP can even get ATF/OSG to sign a contract yet ! Lol
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How is the former New York Local 333 tugboat union doing as the MMP Atlantic Marine Group?
The last MMP AMG wages that I saw posted were less than some nonunion jobs, and with very small annual increases well below the rate of actual inflation. Do they have a fully funded pension?
Help me understand this. Are you saying if OSG LDOs had gone with MEBA that they would have pushed for ATC equivalent wages? ATC and OSG engineers are now and have been MEBA. Why would having the mates join give them any leverage in “Demanding” anyone a bump? I am also interested in how they would demand this while working under the current contract?
It sound like a gross misrepresentation spoken from a pulpit of misknowledge…
Your moniker says Deckie and I don’t know a single engineer that would pimp himself out as a “Deckie” so I’ll assume you got that part right. Please don’t speak for MEBA engineers. It’s not your place to say what we will do.
Stay safe.
Did you sit at the OSG table during the great layoffs and layups of the covid years? I talked to quite a few OSG mates that had to pay COBRA health insurance and some did funemployment, while others worked on tugs as deckhands.
The MEBA guys? Well, they did none of the above…with most working. And those that didn’t work, still had full benefit coverage.
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No, thankfully. I had already left by then. I wouldn’t have been affected though.
I will freely admit that OSG boondoggled the way they handled all the Covid layoffs and rehires, resetting people’s time in service, vesting, benefits, etc, almost exclusively to the junior mates.
I understand why the junior mates decided to go for a union, even if I would not have.